John Elway

Again, Elway was widely believed to be one of the game's greatest clutch performers BEFORE -- long before -- he won his two Super Bowls. It's not as if those two victories suddenly vaulted him into these discussions. You make it sound like he was Ken O'Brien.

 

Are you trying to say Marino "preceded" the Fouts/Air Coryell era?

Fouts' career: 1973-87
Marino's career: 1983-99

Or is this another one of the blue-font-without-the-blue-font posts?

 

Bullshit. That's not what I'm saying at all. I think he was undisputably top 3 from his era (along with Marino and Montana) regardless of whether he'd won the rings or not.

And I'm quite aware of his clutch reputation, and I remember those "comeback counts" on ESPN damn well. But that alone was not enough to vault him ahead of Marino, and he generally was not so regarded until the end of his career when he got the rings. The rings were plainly the difference maker in why it now seems accepted that he should rank ahead of Marino, which I'm not sure is entirely fair considering the inferior supporting cast Marino was burdened with for the majority of his career.

That's all I'm saying. Not denying his greatness.

 

For the first 12 years of his career, which players on the Broncos are you referring to when you talk about Elway's better supporting cast?

 

Compared to the Dolphins rosters from the late 80s onward? Take your pick. Are you seriously disputing which one had the better overall supporting cast for the majority of their careers?

 

Orville probably meant the other way around.
But even by Marino's rookie year, Fouts was an old, oft-injured stationary target playing on some of the most unbalanced teams the NFL has seen.
Marino was better in his second year in the league than Fouts ever was.

 

Yes, with emphasis on majority. Davis didn't show up until Elway's 13th season. Until then, Shannon Sharpe was the best skill player he had at his disposal (and he didn't start playing regularly until 1992), while Marino was throwing to guys like Duper and Clayton, both of whom were better than any receiver Elway had until (maybe) Rod Smith, who also wasn't around until 1995. Sure, Marino's running backs weren't that great, but go ahead and name a good one Elway played with until Davis arrived.

 

These incredible weapons Marino had (Duper/Clayton) rank No. 74 and No. 113 in career receptions with a combined 8 Pro Bowl selections. Not bad at all, mind you, but . . .

Elway played with players who rank 25th (Rod Smith) and 28th (Shannon Sharpe) in career receptions with a combined 11 Pro Bowl selections.

Elway also played with two of the Broncos' three leading rushers in franchise history. Marino didn't play with any of the Dolphins' top 5 running backs in franchise history.

 

Smith compiled the great majority of those catches after Elway retired.

 

So what? The point is that Elway HAD this weapon as a major part of his two Super Bowl-winning teams.

Marino's greatest weapons were a couple of very good receivers who averaged a pretty pedestrian 51-55 catches a season.

The point being, Elway did not carry team after team of dogshit talent to multiple Super Bowls. No team of dogshit talent sees the light of a Super Bowl.