Learning page design

And definitely don't do it on inside pages. The headline should be next to the story on inside pages . If you see a 2-column hed, a 2-column photo and then a 2-column story, someone did it wrong.

 

Since it was my example in question, we were about 3-4 hours out from deadline on a slow day and I was sitting roughly 10 feet away.

He gave me a couple of pointers, but without much depth.

 

This is bullshit. Why would you redo the page in the first place? Because it's not the way YOU would have done it? I don't think we're talking breaking news here. I understand redoing someone's work if it's seriously fucked up and they're off that day. But if they are shitty enough that you have to continually redo things, then they should have never been hired. But nobody ever learns anything by you swooping in and fixing mistakes. Tell them what you want and let them learn by DOING IT. It's the only way they will ever get better.

 

And this is bullshit as well. Most designers aren't actually designers? News to me.

 

+1

 

Some pagination is design but, for the most part, it isn't.

Went to a seminar last week and the dude basically said if you aren't using illustrator, you aren't designing.

Hard to argue with if you get the difference between design and pagination.

 

I hope you didn't pay for that.

 

First, I never said I have to continually redo someone's work. I explained why there are times that an editor or other designer might have to redo someone's work. And I should have noted I only very rarely rebuild pages myself; only when it can't be avoided. Sometimes a page has to be down and there isn't time to send it back to the person who built it. Sometimes a section editor or one of my bosses wants to see it redone before the designer is in that night. There are lots of reasons and a lot of deadlines that have to be hit. There isn't always time to give it back to the designer. In this case, there was time and it should have been sent back. Other times, there simply isn't. If you work in the newspaper business and can't get that, you have issues.

 

If this thread can turn into a catfight, well, I guess any thread can.

It's freakin' newspaper design, guys. Take a breath.

 

And there are plenty of reasons a page has to be redone. Maybe a story got left off (possibly not even the designer's fault; could've been left off the budget he got). Maybe a photo editor wants to go with a different photo. Maybe the headline typography isn't any good. Even great designers can design a crappy page. Ideally, I discuss it with them and let them re-work things. But there isn't always time.

And just so we're clear, I don't want things done the way I would do it necessarily. I want my designers to have their own voice. But young designers need to be guided until they find that voice. Just like young writers.

 

There is definitely a difference between paginating and design, but using Illustrator isn't required for design. It helps, but it's not necessary at all.

 

In that case, definitely not cool. He should have kicked the pages back to you. No reason for not doing it.