Like him or not, he is the best ever

so....he won 7 Gold Gloves but threw like a girl?

 

Produce anything I've ever typed on here that indicates an "incessant hate of Bonds."

I think the guy's an asshole, but I give him his due as a player. He's one of the best hitters of all time. No one is denying that.

How many "great" seasons do you think he had in left field?

How many below average ones has he had in a row, now?

I'll let you do the math.

BTW, Babe Ruth has him beat in outfield assists, and I don't see anyone arguing for Ruth as one of the best defensive outfielders ever.

 

One is a huge difference, the other isn't.

 

That is just plain stupid. He's gotten older, he's gained weight -- by whatever means you believe, the fact is he's gained weight -- his knees have gotten progressively worse -- and so naturally over the past five or six seasons his defensive skills have lapsed.

But Bonds from 1988 until about 1998 -- when he was still young, fast and healthy -- you'd have been hard pressed to find a better defensive left-fielder in the game.

Geez, your argument is like saying Jordan wasn't the greatest player ever because, for at least the last seven or eight years of his career he had become more of a jump shooter and went to the basket less and less because he had basically lost a step.

The fact is he changed his game because he got old.

 

What I don't think anyone is really pointing out is that he never took Pittsburgh to a World Series (with a very good team) and only took the Giants once.

If he was a Baseball God, which is what we are argueing here, he should have played in more than one World Series.

Ted Williams had to go through a heck of a lot more great teams to make the World Series, but I think he would have made more than one if he was not shooting down enemy fighters.

 

Check out Bonds' pre-steroid numbers in the post-season. They suck.

 

Ken Griffey Jr. was better than either.

 

True, which means he is not the greatest ever.

 

It was Dock Ellis, it was a no-hitter, and he was on acid. That in no way hurts your argument, of course.

I'd say that Ruth had the bigger handicap anyway, because they hadn't invented Motrin yet for hangovers.

 

Basketball is the only team sport in which an individual player can carry his team to a championship and even then they need a supporting cast or players who know their role.

And, fyi, Ted Williams played in an eight-team league with one tier of postseason.

 

Simon --

An interesting point about Griffey. He was the man until the knees went on him.

Zag --

Thank you for making my point for me. In bulking up to hit all those homers, Bonds made himself into a below average left fielder. All I'm saying is you have to factor it all in. If he plays one more year in the field, he'll have as many years as a below average fielder as he had as an above average fielder. You can, as they say, look it up.

The Jordan comparison is simply laughable, as we aren't discussing style of scoring or batting but rather defense.

 

The "How many rings argument" may be the most non-sensical and/or irrelevant among any when talking about baseball players, particularly outfielders.

Barry Bonds would not have had to make a miracle throw to get Sid Bream out had (a) Jose Lind fielded a routine ground ball earlier in the inning (b) the right fielder, I believe it was Cecil Espy but could be wrong, had been in proper position to field Tony Pendelton's lead-off double and (c) the Pirates had a closer who could throw a strike as they went into the bottom of the ninth with a 2-0 lead.

Further, he'd have a ring if, the Giants had a competent, or even mediocre bullpen as you might remember they had a 5-0 lead in the 8th inning of what would have been their fourth win - and thus series-clinching and had they won Bonds would have been the MVP, mind you -- game versus the Angels but again, the bullpen couldn't get outs.

A lot of great players, one Alex Rodriguez comes to mind, haven't won the ring or even played for it because no matter how great one player, particularly a field player, baseball is the ultimate team sport.