Like him or not, he is the best ever

Cum dumpster?

 

And you act like Mario's inability to stay on the ice is something to be dismissed. The fact is, woulda coulda shoulda ... he didn't break the records.

 

The fact that he was injured a lot doesn't take away from what he did when healthy nor does it have much to do with a discussion about the greatest offensive player. He played long enough and appeared in enough games that his body of work is clearly more than just a fluke.

It is no different than people who consider Gale Sayers to be the greatest running back on the planet. Some do, I do not, however, but not because his career was cut short by injury.

 

I don't think anyone said Lemieux was a fluke.

 

And yet, his body of work is still much, much lesser than Gretzky's. Not only over a full career, where injuries would limit your ability to compile longetivity statistics, but even at his peak over any single season or period of seasons.

But here's where I can agree with you:

What Mario could have done > What Wayne could have done

Does that make him the best offensive player? Not in my mind, because he simply couldn't stay on the ice long enough to compete with Gretzky's full body of work. Herb Score might have been the best left-handed pitcher who ever lived -- but he wasn't, because he got hurt and couldn't stay healthy. Subjectively, statistically, however you want to look at it -- Gretzky did more, regardless of whether he could have done more. The fact is, he did.

The problem with the logic above is, there's really no way to prove or disprove any of it because nobody knows what could have happened. We do, however, know what did happen. If you're going to argue that Mario was better ... based on what he could do over what he actually did ... well, I can't really argue with that, because there's no way to win or lose. You're arguing for something that does not exist.

But if you're going off what each player did, then Wayne > Mario. There's not even a doubt.

And with that, I'm done for now. Thanks for the discussion.

 

I can live with that. And thank you for the discussion as well.

Now carry on until tomorrow when we discuss who was better Bo Jackson or Barry Sanders.... ;D

 

They were both great players. I am from Pittsburgh, and I am perfectly comfortable saying Mario is the second best player of all time.

If you look at the length of their careers, Wayne is by far the better player. That is what this thread is about.

If you were to look at who would you want when they were playing at their best for a seven game series or a playoff run, I would go with Mario. But he had a limited window for this greatness. Remember, he skated with Jagr, Ronnie Francis and a goalie who was great at clearing the puck and getting up theice (too good sometimes). That was a loaded team as well.

Career - Wayne

A seven game series for the championship of the world - Mario

Just to add a little fuel to the fire...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Canada_Cup

Look at the scoring leaders.


Hat trick for Mario and five assists for Wayne. You know, this just made my list of all time sporting events I wish I was at. Why it was not on it before? I do not know.

 

So what you are essentially saying is, when healthy and on the ice, Mario Lemieux was a better player than Wayne Gretzky.

Thank you for clearing that up..... ;D

 

When healthy and on the field, Rich Harden is a hell of a pitcher. Same with Mark Prior...

 

Zag, you might change your attack here.

You might offer your opinion that Lemieux is the best hockey player ever --a tenuous opinion at best---but your claim that he was the "greatest offensive player ever" is flat out silly and not supported by reality i.e. Gretzky's stats.

Yours is a would have/could have argument and it's a mug's game.

 

Wakefield was amazing in that series. As a Braves fan, the last person I wanted to see on the mound that night was him. As I recall, the Braves even brought in Phil Niekro at one point late in the series to throw BP. That's how serious it got.

That said, I'll never forget looking at a buddy of mine as the bottom of the ninth was about to start and saying, "Either way, it'll be the greatest comeback in history." Had the Pirates held on, they would have been the first team in NL history to erase a 3-1 deficit. Oddly enough, that distinction now belongs to the Braves (thank you St. Louis). ;D

 

If I wanted a best player for a short period of time my baseball lineup could look like this

1B - Mattingly
2B - Jeff Kent, Joe Morgan
SP - JR Richard
SP - Pedro Martinez
RP - Thigpen and Gagne
OF - Maris, Mantle, Yaz
DH - Hack Wilson

But these guys for their entire career cannot really stack up.

Please don't pick apart these choices. They just done off the top of my head.