Like him or not, he is the best ever

No kidding. He wasn't even the best DiMaggio defensively.

 

First -- A different era entirely so while the pitching stuff is impressive, it speaks more about opportunity than anything else. Many of the best pitchers in Major League baseball were also tremendous field players at one point but in an era of ultra-specialization, kids nowadays are herded into one position and stuck there at about age 7. I have no doubt that some great players could have also been great pitchers had they been given the opportunity to do both.

Second, irrelevant but nice try. And one could argue that the glut of home runs from Bonds, Sosa and McGuire over a three-year stretch helped save baseball as well. So who cares.

Third, speaks volumes about the level of competition and the actual quality of players at the time. It also speaks volumes about a different era -- one before home run hitters were valued and bred. He was one of the first home run hitters, so while impressive, again it comes down to mostly opportunity in that, he was one of the first of his kind of hitter.

Fourth -- So what you are saying is, he was in good shape for two seasons? Bravo. Again, if you think a fat piece of shit could dominate today's athletes you've watched too many movies which romanticize the Roaring 20's.

Fifth -- To discount the fact that the entire world was not a part of the talent pool as it is today is ridiculous. And who cares if the game was developed in other countries -- the fact that international players were not a part of the talent pool means it was indeed a much more shallow talent pool.

Sixth -- Ken Caminiti was one of the greatest partiers ever. Where did that get him?

Seventh -- A ridiculous point and totally irrelevant, but I'll address it anyway. Once again, it is more about opportunity -- Barry Bonds wasn't born in 1895 and therefore didn't have the same chance to be America's "first" sports hero.....

In short, while you may be right about Babe Ruth being the greatest ever -- though little is written about his defense which is why I go with Mays -- none of your arguments hold much water.

And for the record, I'm of the belief that Barry Bonds is not the greatest player ever but he certainly belongs in that discussion and that's a point even the most ardent Bonds haters would have to concede.

 

I've heard Joe Morgan refer to Bonds as the best defensive left-fielder ever. I'm going to say he is far closer to being right than someone who admittedly has an irrational hatred of Bonds.

If you really believe that Bonds was just an "average" defensive outfielder, than you have zero credibility on this issue and certainly have no clue when it comes to baseball and while his arm wasn't Clemente's it was better than people give it credit for because he had such a quick release and he had such an uncanny ability to play the angles and bounces so as to minimize the distance of his throws.

The Sid Bream throw was a much tougher throw than it appeared simply because he was running one direction and had to throw it on the run in an a somewhat different direction.

 

Overstated a bit, but essentially on point. Using that one play as a referendum on Bonds' defensive abilities is kind of like saying, "Yeah, Mickey Mantle is an overrated hitter. Saw him strike out in the World Series once with men on base."

 

Joe Morgan also said (just the other day) that Gary Sheffield was the most feared hitter in the game. And he doesn't believe Ryne Sandberg should be in the Hall of Fame. Joe Morgan is an idiot.

 

I am going to be willing to bet you are overstating and taking out of context what he said about Sheffield and maybe by a lot and I'm going to also be willing to bet that Joe Morgan has forgotten more about baseball than most people on the planet will ever know.

I think Joe Morgan is a terrible announcer, he talks to much and he rambles on about silly, insignificant things and he is too often captain of the obvious.

That doesn't change the fact that Joe Morgan knows baseball and knows it well.

 

Wow...I'm agreeing with Zag again...what is this world coming to?

Zeke...much as I respect your baseball opinions (damn Yellow Ledbetters are giving me a fight right now, too), I think you're off base on this one.

 

But wait ... I thought two weeks ago we were crying because There Are No Blacks in Baseball Anymore.

Seems like Ruth and Bonds both played in a league in which black players were (allegedly) sorely underepresented.

So we can call them even, eh?

 

But would Babe Ruth have been the Home Run King for so long with Josh Gibson in the league?

 

First, Joe Morgan is an idiot.

Next, if Bonds is truly an above-average outfielder, which aspects of his defensive play are above average?

Everyone agrees his arm is certainly below average.

His range, even if you give him above average at the beginning of his career, is below average now. A wash.

I'll give him above average positioning. Which makes his arm a wash.

Again, it adds up to average. Considering his bat, that's more than enough.

 

Zags: It must be an internet thing to say arguments are irrelavant when you don't have facts to counteract them, but one thing can not go unanswered. I will give you more credit than the guy who wrote this article.

There is no way Ken Caminiti could match Babe Ruth as a partier. The Babe is a legend for a reason.

 

No because while the percentage of American-born black players is lower than it was 30 years ago, the overall percentage of minorities in baseball when you take into consideration Hispanics, Asians and other international players is actually higher and will continue to grow as international scouting continues to improve and teams increasingly continue to see the world as their talent pool.

It won't shock me if 10, 15, 20 years from now the American-born white player comprises less than 50 percent of the players in Major League Baseball.