Like him or not, he is the best ever

Gold -- The only two arguments of yours I labeled as irrelevant are the "first American hero" and the "he saved baseball" stuff and even then I offered counter points.

And Caminiti basically partied himself to death.....

 

If baseball was integrated, Josh Gibson would have been facing better pitching every day. Josh Gibson could hit home runs as far as anybody, so maybe he would have matched Ruth for home runs. The other question would have been how would Josh Gibson be durable as a catcher for 154 games a year, and would that have affected his hitting. I don't know if Josh Gibson would have matched Ruth, but it seems very probable he would have been the best catcher in major league baseball during the 1930s and 40s and certainly among the best of all time.

 

Right... and that's my point. Caminiti couldn't handle it and the Babe could stay out all night and still hit a couple of homers the next day.

 

Joe Morgan's exact words were "Gary Sheffield is still the most feared hitter in the game." He said it on last Sunday night's ESPN broadcast. I couldn't believe my ears, either, but he said it. Joe Morgan is an idiot.

 

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/

You'll have a field day, here.

Joe Morgan was a hell of a ballplayer. As a student of the game and a commenter on it, he's one of the worst around.

 

Thank you, Buck-Dub. That was pretty much my entire argument. Could someone please point out to me which season Willie Mays, Bonds, Aaron, Ted Williams or Joe DiMaggio won 20 games on the hill? Thought so.

 

I agree he is a terrible commentator, but many people who know the game --no disrespect to a bunch of cacklers in a chat-room -- say he knows it as well as anyone and I concur.

 

Didn't Doc Ellis or Vida Blue once pitch a one-hitter while high on cocaine? So maybe he should be the greatest partier of all time because, unlike the Babe, he didn't bother to stop partying even come game time.

 

His range for most his career was exceptional. He won, what, seven Gold Gloves? Yeah, I know, Raffy Palmeiro got one one year mostly as a DH, so this means every Gold Glove ever given is invalid. : And he was getting those Gold Gloves before he was BARRY BONDS. The whole steroids has made a lot of people forget what a great, great, all-around player Bonds was before he turned himself into a lab experiment. Pre-head growth, he'd put together the sort of body of work that made him the first real legitimate challenger to Ted Williams as the greatest LF.

All that said, best player ever is a no-brainer.

The Babe.

 

And one other thing -- I don't anyone -- other than those stuck in the "Sid Bream" mode-- who would say Bonds arm is "below average". Average, perhaps, but most baseball people I know would characterize it as slightly above average or better.

 

Montezuma --

OK. I'll spot him exceptional -- above average -- now below average on the range factor.

He was certainly an above average outfielder for part of his career. Never truly great, though, because of the pop-gun arm, despite zag's fictional experts. He NEVER had a good arm.

He has now been average or below average for a long time, as well.

That's all I'm saying.

Add it all up, and he comes out average, IMHO.

 

Again, your incessant hate of Bonds undermines your credibility -- and the fact that just about every expert including ones who hate Bonds and the ones who coached him, disagree with you also doesn't speak well of your sentiments, either.

Bonds was an unbelievable left-fielder in every aspect of playing defense for a lot of years. The only chink in his armor is he didn't have a rocket arm, but his arm was certainly good enough and better than the majority of the starting left-fielders in the league as well.