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Louisiana public school actively promotes Christianity

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Jan 28, 2014.

Page 3 of 14
  1. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    Just because our government has a long history of ignoring it when it suits them doesn't mean separation of church and state shouldn't exist.
     
    MisterCreosote, Jan 28, 2014
    #25
  2. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    We've clearly gotten away from the Christian principles in which this great country was founded upon.
     
    Baron Scicluna, Jan 28, 2014
    #26
  3. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Damn it!

    I clicked on this link 13 posts ago, but didn't look at it until know. And thus, I've been beaten to the punch.
     
    YankeeFan, Jan 28, 2014
    #27
  4. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Maybe you just need to spend more time in Louisiana. NOTHING that happens there surprises me.
     
    outofplace, Jan 28, 2014
    #28
  5. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Well, there is that ...

    Maybe the school in question is down the road from one of those drive-through daiquiri places. If so, I think we can all agree that this is a case of "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" ...
     
    doctorquant, Jan 28, 2014
    #29
  6. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    My First Amendment professor actually challenged us pretty hard on this, basically why the courts, Congress, and the executive get to talk about religion and lead prayers, but don't extend that to other state entities. Also, why prayers and discussion of religion are fine, but religious symbols or adornments, like the crucifix, are not.

    I recall raising my hand and guessing that the elites in government think they are to be trusted with toeing the line, but yokels aren't. He nodded as if to say, "That guess is as good as any other."
     
    Dick Whitman, Jan 28, 2014
    #30
  7. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    I would love to take a history book from somewhere deep in Louisiana or Mississippi and compare it with one that is used in California or New York.
     
    Mizzougrad96, Jan 28, 2014
    #31
  8. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    I'm not nearly as versed in this as some, but the court decisions I've read center around whether the action can be interpreted as endorsement of religion.

    I don't see how most of these cases could be interpreted as anything else.
     
    MisterCreosote, Jan 28, 2014
    #32
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I didn't say anything about what should exist. I just know what does exist. The phrase "separation of church and state" doesn't appear anywhere in the constitution -- never mind what it would even mean if it did.

    Getting back to my post you quoted, I was responding to BYM2 saying that "Thomas Jefferson stopped a half-foot short of calling religion horseshit," as the reason he is blown away by something that has always existed in this country (a local government body opening with a prayer) and is hardly limited to the place he was talking about.

    When the Supreme Court last did rule on the issue (apparently nobody really thought much about it for 200 years) in March vs. Chambers (1983), they found 6-3 that the establishment clause doesn't prohibit opening a state legislative body with a prayer or even the legislature employing a chaplain.

    That doesn't tell anyone much about what should exist, as you put it. By 1983 the Supreme Court in practice was more of an appointed legislative body than the check on the legislature it was meant to be.

    But I would point out that Warren Burger pointed out what I was trying to suggest. That the same men who ratified the Constitution (and the Bill of Rights) opened their legislative sessions with prayer and employed chaplains paid for by the legislature: "This unique history leads us to accept the interpretation of the First Amendment draftsmen who saw no real threat to the Establishment Clause arising from a practice of prayer similar to that now challenged."

    I personally think Christianity (and Judaism and Islam and *insert your organized religion*) is a fairy tale. And I don't get how anyone who can reason would believe in something so far-fetched that offers no proof of its silliness. I also acknowledge that I live in a place where lots of people do believe in silly things -- evidence be damned. And opening a local council meeting with a prayer -- even if I personally think the prayer is a waste of time -- is so de minimis in terms of how much it puts me out that the practice itself is harmless to me. People who get upset about it are making much ado about nothing, in my opinion.
     
    The Big Ragu, Jan 28, 2014
    #33
  10. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    Because Establishment / Free Exercise Clause jurisprudence is a barely coherent mess?
     
    Guy_Incognito, Jan 28, 2014
    #34
  11. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    Yes, that is technically true. But, in this case, we don't have to speculate about the framers' intent:

    "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state."
     
    MisterCreosote, Jan 28, 2014
    #35
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Yes. In fact, that should have been listed under the "Objective" heading in the syllabus.
     
    Dick Whitman, Jan 28, 2014
    #36
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