Mad Men Season 5 running thread

How about Layne giving her the inside track to leveraging it into a partnership?

 

Only for his own best interest.

 

I don't know about only. It worked out best for him, but I also think he has enough affection for Joan he truly didn't want to see her make the same mistake he did and settle for less than she was worth to the company.

 

I was going to say, he has always admired Joan, even when he hasn't been trying to catch her in an unsuspecting liplock.

 

Goddamn, that was a fascinating episode. This show has definitely surpassed The Sopranos for the No. 2 slot in my all-time list. Just a great season all around.

 

Totally with you HC. My wife and I are in complete disagreement about the Joan thing. I think it betrayed her character. The show spent almost all of the first five seasons charting her path from Roger Sterling mistress to office manager and single mother. She DIDN'T want Roger's money for Kevin. She didn't want to stay married to Greg. While she's admired Peggy (much for the same way Peggy admires Megan) for breaking through the glass ceiling with her courage and hard work, having Joan break through the same ceiling by becoming the very thing _ a prostitute, for lack of a better word _ she had worked so hard to avoid was just kind of sad. Joan deserved better.
My wife says I'm just looking at it through 2012 and not in the '60s. She says "you think that's the first time that ever happened." Of course not, but I just think it was a big, big misstep.
Did love the Peggy stuff at the end though.

 

The Joan thing is a toughie.

Sellout, I tend to agree with your wife on this. You can't judge Joan's actions from the perspective of 2012.

If you frame this situation within the context of the 60's, Joan's agreeing to sleeping with Herb opened up a partnership for her --something that no woman in that firm would ever achieve no matter how brilliant or competent she was in that era

And we know right from Season One that Joan is one of the most competent yet underappreciated people in the organization But in the end she's still just Joannie, den mother to the secretaries .

Maybe sleeping with Herb was her way of sticking it to the men in the company. And if you think about it, Joan has pretty much done everything so far on HER terms. Maybe it's not out of character at all. Maybe she's just revealed a little more of it.

Now the other partners will have to deal with Joan as an equal. That's gonna be a tough pill to swallow.

A little bit of "Careful what you wish for"

 

This show plays upon the difference in generations, and Don is part of the Silent Generation that values money. It is what they use to show appreciation. Peggy is a Baby Boomer. She wants payment in the form of respect like going to Paris or being made a partner.

The eventual downfall of SCDP will be not seeing the shift in generations, and I think losing Peggy might mean SCDP missing out on one of the biggest fish of the late 1960s and 1970s - Disney. If Cosgrove goes with her, I think his science fiction writing will play a large part in landing The Mouse.

 

Being a reader rather than a writer, I always look for others to express my thoughts. This one works admirably:

http://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/mad-men-the-other-woman-the-years-ickiest-episode-of-television.php

 

Regarding Lane: I think he totally did this in his own self-interest. The reaction he had when he exited Joan's office said that (at least to me). He is a desperate man and knew he couldn't get $50K from the bank.

Regarding Joan: She may not want Roger's money or to be married to Greg, but nevertheless she has accepted Roger's money (although protests for him to stop) and it was Greg who filed divorce papers. Her wants and needs (she needs $ to raise her child, keep her apartment, etc.) conflict. While she is obviously adept at her job and likely should be doing more, that's not the prism in which she views herself - her mother taught her to look good for men + she sees her mom basically whore herself out (or attempt to) to the maintenance guy for free work.

Either way, I'm loving this season. Hated that it was gone for so long and now bumming this season is almost over.

 

Wow. Just wow. Peggy (work hard, try to advance the right way) has money thrown in her face and has it driven home that she has advanced as far as she ever will. Joan sells her soul and sleeps with a client to get ahead. Don straddles the fence -- pushing Peggy down while at the same time defending Joan's virtue. And we know that Don has worked very hard to achieve his stature, but he's also slept with clients to get ahead. Fascinating.

Was it revealed whether Peggy knew about the happenings with Joan?

 

Yes . . . Peggy was told that Joan had been made a partner, Sunday night . . .