Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

You are asking if Kidd spilling the cup disqualifies him?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Watching this board discuss NFL quarterbacking will drop your IQ 30 points in one sitting, at any given time.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

No. Your opinion holds no weight in disqualifying anyone from anything. I am asking for your opinion. Jason Kidd, admitted cheater and wife-beater, will be on the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame ballot in five years. Would you vote for him if given the chance?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Are you talking about him spilling the cup the other night?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I think it's about time we took this as a yes, since you refuse to simply answer the question.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I'm more than willing to answer the question. I am earnestly asking if that's the Kiddcheating he's referring to.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Yes. He cheated. He admitted it. He beat his wife. He admitted it. I'd like an answer.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Yes, of course Jason Kidd is a Hall of Famer.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I didn't ask that.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Yes, I would vote for Jason Kidd.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I suppose Versatile is trying to root out some hypocrisy on my part or, at the very least, inconsistency.

I just don't see it.

I feel perfectly capable of differentiating between different types of bad behavior, even within the same category of bad behavior. That feels like a pretty uncontroversial assertion, no? Shoplifting a pack of gum does not carry the same punishment as first-degree murder. Shoplifting a pack of gum also does not carry the same punishment as stealing a car. I advocate harsher penalties for stealing a car than I do stealing a pack of gum.

Jason Kidd spilled a cup of water on the floor in order to steal some time near the end of a game to strategize with his team. He broke no state or federal laws. He put no opposing coaches into a position wherein they had to risk their short- and long-term health in order to compete with him on a level playing field. That's quite different than what Barry Bonds did - PED use over a long period of time, which puts opponents into a position where they - at least theoretically - must risk federal jail time or a federal criminal conviction, and their health in order to compete.

All "cheating" is not equal, which is why I don't think the Hank Aaron comparison (or is it Willie Mays?) is an argument-ender, either. Michael Gee has said that he thinks it's important how much the cheating actually helped, rather than trying to anchor comparisons in moral judgment. I think that hits on something I've intuited, too.

As far as the Jameis Winston comparison goes, I think that's trickier. It seems like he's still going to win the Trophy, so I'd probably be in the minority in not voting for him, would I end up going the way I would be leaning at this point in time. There are a few things specific to Winston that cause me to hesitate:

• It's college sports, and it seems like there still ought to be some differentiation between college and pro sports, when it comes to expectations. Now, the counter argument is that full grown men should actually know better, but, ultimately, I find it easier to award scum in pro sports than scum in college sports. Pro sports seems all about the performance - assuming that the performance itself is clean. College sports, and the Heisman in particular, seem to include both according to the explicit criteria and according to tradition a character component. Now that can get sticky, because we can't know everyone and what they do away from the cameras. But I suspect that most of them aren't possibly rapists.
• This might seem silly, and I might need to try to overcome it, but the fact that we have a big pomp-and-circumstance ceremony where these guys are paraded around makes me less inclined to award them. I've mentioned it on the HOF threads, too. The fact that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens would get to give big speeches in a ceremony where the man is celebrated as much as his accomplishments would make me less inclined to vote for them. The ceremonies conflate talent and character.
• I would have little problem voting for Jameis Winston as first-team All-American. I guess there's probably some award show now, as there is for about every award. But its effect is diluted somewhat because it honors many players at once. Plus, it's not as rooted in history as a major component of the roll-out like the Heisman ceremony is.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Is it really "trolling"? I don't get the feeling that anyone here does not believe what they are putting forth.