Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa, right? Bonds for the most part. He as much as admitted using in his GJ testimony - just said he didn't know what it was. Not sure if intent is required for conviction here or not, though.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

And Clemens

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I see those as reasonable, but to be honest, I'd want either a confession or a failed drug test to keep a guy out. Otherwise, it becomes more and more subjective how much guesswork you are doing.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

That would be my policy as well if I had a vote. Granted, we're assuming we know when they started using.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I think your stance is reasonable. I also think it's reasonable for voters to keep a guy out based on circumstantial evidence. A vote is always going to be subjective, otherwise there'd be hard guidelines to follow.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Didn't Bonds claim to have used some by accident, that he used something given to him by a trainer? I know that's bullshit, but it is admitting he used.

But, Palmeiro and McGwire would be the only ones who either failed tests or admitted using.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

It's pretty well-known Piazza admitted to beat writers that he used. Bagwell got so big at one point in his career that it's an obvious assumption that he used. I think both get in, maybe this year, maybe ahead of Clemens and Bonds...

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I was hopeful that when they announced the ballot, they would also announce the end of the 10-vote limit.

And even if you take out those who you view as cheaters/potential cheaters, you could still have more than 10 to vote for. There are 21 players on the ballot you could make a reasonable case for.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Is anybody troubled by Deadspin buying* a HoF vote?

* - I'm not sure if money will change hands, but that's what Deadspin is calling it.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

And that is exactly why I think it should only be those who have failed a PED test or admitted PED use.

I'm sure everybody who cares has heard that story about Piazza. Nobody can prove it and it is absolute bullshit to use it to punish the guy.

The argument you just made about Bagwell is even worse. You can't tell who used and who did not based on how big or small guys are. Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about. No way in hell should that be the basis of an argument to keep a guy out.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I look at it this way: You use the Bill James criteria of "is there any evidence to suggest he was a better or worse player than suggested by his statistics?"

In other words, did PED usage make the player better than he truly was throughout the bulk of his career?

In the case of Bonds, the PED usage that was documented came late in his career. That's not enough for me to hold it against him. That's why I'd vote for him. Ditto for Clemens.

I don't think you can make that same argument with Palmeiro (who was mostly Hall of Good throughout his career) or Sosa (I've never been convinced he belongs).

I'm torn on McGwire. I'd have to look more closely at Bagwell's career. I would vote for Piazza.

As far as who I voted for in the poll, I went with Maddux and Glavine because they seem to be the only two a large number of voters aren't going to question. I can see plenty of voters grumble about Frank Thomas: "But he's just a DH!" Even though I think that's a stupid argument to make.

FWIW, my 10 picks if I had a vote: Maddux, Glavine, Clemens, Bonds, Thomas, Piazza, Biggio and Trammel for sure. Then I'd be debating Bagwell, McGwire, Martinez, Mussina and Schilling.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Objective doesn't mean you just make up your own evidence, and some of this "circumstantial" evidence I've heard is a joke.