Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

And my counter arguement would be -- isn't that the natural tapering off to a career?
A guy hits 31 homers at 28, and then goes 43, 34, 42, and peaks at 47 at age 32. He goes 39, 31 and 39, a last big year at 35. Then he hit 27 at 36. His final year he missed basically all of May-August. So at 37 he retired.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I think you'd have a hard time finding a net drop of 36 home runs in a two-year span for anyone -- and 37 is not a particularly old age either, especially for a guy who was so into fitness.

But the body breaking down completely once the chemical help goes away? That's a flashing neon sign.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Except you have ZERO evidence that he ever used the chemical, and it didn't suddenly go away in MLB once testing started. Plenty of guys tried to get around it and I think it is pretty clear that some succeeded.

Sorry, but you can't come close to backing up your claim here.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Well his last three seasons he had the following:

39 homers in 605 ABs
27 homers in 572 ABs
3 homers in 100 ABs.

How many was he supposed to hit in just 100 at-bats, including the fact that when he returned from injury in Sept, he got 14 at-bats spread over 14 games?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Della, the injury was in all likelihood caused by the PED change. You're treating it as a separate and unrelated event.

He had an invincibility in 2003 that he did not have two years later.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

The other bad thing is that last year Shaughnessy voted for Raines and Trammell and had plenty of room to do so again, yet didn't. So it's great that he views not voting for Raines as unfair, because he just doesn't feel like a Hall of Famer. Except just last year he knew it when he saw it. This year he doesn't

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

And you're making a leap based on the fact that it has to be PED-related. Why can't it be that a 37-year-old's body finally broke down after 14 straight years of holding up, that an arthritic shoulder forced him unable to swing like he previously could?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Assess the relative likelihood of the explanations.

You would have to admit it's far more likely that PEDs were a part of it. To think otherwise is to return to the sepia-toned Lupica days of 1998.

You're talking about the best-known weightlifter in baseball during what is now known as the Steroid Era.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I voted for Bagwell because I generally disregard steroid use.

That being said, if we could somehow do a 20 year blood sample and know exactly what he did or didn't do, I'd probably be more surprised to find out he was clean than dirty.

I think probably most of the guys in the majors from 1995-2003ish probably cheated to some degree or another. It's just the way it was.

That's why I don't think of it as being such a big flaw of "integrity" and why I tend to vote for the guys who performed the best. Period.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I should add that I think guys who cheat today (Braun, ARod) are a different category than guys who cheated back in the wild days of 1995-2003.

Guys back then were just doing what was almost encouraged, and certainly not discouraged. Today it's different.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Yep. An excellent point and one that will get a lot more relevant in the ballot 10 years from now.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

You're talking out of your ass and simply refusing to admit you have no real evidence to back up your claim.

Typical of the folks whining about PEDs. Y'all constantly contradict yourselves and each other. One of the biggest complaints I've heard about PED use is that players held up longer than they would have without cheating, that they just wouldn't be so productive into their late 30s and even early 40s without chemical help. Now your evidence against Bagwell basically comes down to him breaking down at too YOUNG of an age.

It's all bullshit.