Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Isn't he saying he broke down because he was no longer allowed to use steroids after testing?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

That is what I'm saying.

But oop isn't worth engaging in any debate, much less one on this topic. He still thinks baseball had nothing on Ryan Braun.

He is especially cranky on days the Steelers are eliminated from playoff contention.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Typical. You can't argue the point, so you attack the poster.

Your point assumes that Bagwell was using, but does not come anywhere close to proving it. Your "evidence" is that he broke down at 37, which runs exactly counter to the argument so often made that players lasting too long was proof of PED use.

Comes back to the argument I made a long time ago on this subject and it still holds.

The guy got too big. He must have used steroids.

The guy was always too big. He must have used steroids. (Wait. There have been little guys busted for steroid use? I'm just going to ignore that fact.)

The guy gets hurt too much. He must have used steroids.

The guy never gets hurt. He must have used steroids.

The guy is too good at that age. He must have used steroids.

The guy broke down way too early. He must have used steroids.

The guy played with a known PED user, so he must have used them.

The guy played for Tony LaRussa, so he must have used steroids. (Hello A_QB).

The guy is too good. He must have used steroids.

I have read every single one of those arguments as a justification for PED use on this site, which simply proves that far too many of y'all are willing to just guess without any real evidence at all.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

But what evidence is he using to back that up? Bagwell's sudden decline at 37, which is really no evidence at all, as I explained earlier.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

The only players that used were the ones who got caught.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

If you actually meant it, you would be the only poster here who said that. I certainly never did.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Here's what I don't get, though: Some writers would have you believe that EVERYONE thought Morris was The Ace of his era. But that's just not true at all.

Plenty of writers who were around in the 1980s have pushed back on that perception lately, and I haven't seen a whole lot of contemporary evidence that he was so highly regarded at the time, either ... until Game 7. Then his reputation did a 180.

Before then? He was called "selfish and mean-spirited", "Mt. Morris", and "temperamental." It caused a great stir in July 1984 when Tigers pitching coach Roger Craig publicly called him out for "acting like a big baby."

Then, all of a sudden, in 1992? You start seeing quotes like this:

And as complete games started dropping in the 1990s and 2000s, you start seeing writers romanticize Morris as "the ultimate gamer".

Hey, Game 7 happened. It absolutely enhanced Morris's legacy, as it should have.

But let's not pretend like Morris's reputation before Game 7 was the same as it was afterward.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Of course, if he threw that Game 7 in a Yankee uniform, he'd already be in Cooperstown.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Name the undeserving Yankees the BBWAA has elected then.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

To Dick's point, all the questionable Yankee Hall of Fame inductees --- Jack Chesbro, Earle Combs, Waite Hoyt, Tony Lazzeri --- were Old Timers/Veterans Committee picks.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

There's no doubt that kicked his reputation to another level. But Morris' addition to Minnesota's staff the previous winter, even after his dreary three-season run from 1988-1990, was considered a major coup by/for the Twins, for his ace-ness and the shaping of a young rotation. Heck, even in the winter of collusion back in 1987, he was highly sought and already known as a tent-pole pitcher.

Obviously he's a borderline HOF candidate. But a lot of players' reputations evolve and morph -- Nolan Ryan, Curt Schilling and on and on. His seasons and Series titles with Minnesota in '91 and Toronto in '92, at ages 36 and 37, added much to Morris' portfolio apart from G7, '91. In my view.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Why does "reputation" matter anyway apart from results? Players mis-perceived a peer's ability, so that somehow enhances his HOF credentials?