Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

The longer that Clemens and Bonds are kept out, the more the voters will be viewed as silly and irrelevant by the general public. Baseball's fan base has never carried the same level of indignant hard-on for the steroid users that the media has, and the gulf grows wider every year. The more years go by that these two especially aren't in, the more skeptical the public will become of the entire process.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Does that, I take it, exclude the 68 percent of the public that does not think that steroid users should be eligible for the HOF?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/poll-few-see-steroids-ruining-sports-but-most-say-users-should-not-get-in-hall-of-fame/2013/01/08/595b5910-599f-11e2-beee-6e38f5215402_story.html

There is a very vocal pocket of the Internet that does not think that PEDs are a big deal. You are part of it. Deadspin is part of it. Every baseball stat site is part of it.

It is not reflective of the American public's view on the issue. The BBWAA's stance is.

Far, far more harmful, to me, are ballots like the one Dan Shaunghessy proudly trumpeted in his column, where Tim Raines was a HOFer a year ago, but didn't "feel like" one this time around. Which didn't include Craig Biggio because he "only" had one 200-hit season. I think people can largely accept a ballot that includes some thought and internally consistent logic, even if the view on PEDs may not coincide with their own. What they should not accept are the proudly ignorant like Shaunghessy showing their ass.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

That's my biggest issue with keeping the PED people out. For obvious reasons, the media went after certain players whose names came up in the PED investigations, while others were ignored or their names didn't come up.

I remember this story from last year was pretty interesting...

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/08/suspicion-of-steroid-use-could-keep-bagwell-and-piazza-out-of-hall/?_r=0

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Who, other than Bagwell, is presumed to be a cheater without ever having either admitted using, having their name listed in the Mitchell Report or BALCO investigation or been suspended?

Is he the only one? I'm not sure if Thome's name has ever come up.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

It's like those polls that show people hate government in general but love specific government programs. Change the question to "Should Barry Bonds get in the Hall" and I bet the numbers change. Fans would happily vote Pete Rose in. That's one reason why baseball hasn't given fans a vote yet despite their knowledge of what a fine promotion it would be.
Mizzou, was Piazza ever officially accused of PED use or is it just the alleged off-the-record admission on his record? I forget.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Take a look at the stats listed in the very article you cited, Dick. A huge drop, essentially 1/3, in the percent who view steroids as a problem. A widening gulf...

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Doesn't that mean people don't think they are being used any more?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Piazza.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

1. To Captain Kirk's point: I disagree with this. I think all segments of the baseball public (fans, writers, broadcasters, ex-players, analysts) are divided on the steroids issue. Brian Kenney of MLB Network, one of the biggest flag carriers for statistical analysis, said he wouldn't vote for Bonds or Clemens. The Internet Baseball Writers just released and they didn't vote for Bonds or Clemens. Heck, a Facebook friend of mine polled his friends on FB and they didn't vote for Bonds, Clemens. The problem is it's a divisive issue with no right answers, so it doesn't matter who you ask.

2. OOP. The ballot doesn't ask do you think these guys took steroids. It asks "do you think these guys are HOFers?" That's an opinion. The proof is that people's opinions on the first question don't necessarily lead to the second. Like me. I think they used and I voted for them. There are also different levels of steroid use and different levels of proof, so you have to consider all that when coming to your opinion about whether they are HOFers.

I know you think I'm trying to defend everyone. I'm not. I think there are some of the 600-plus ballots are terrible and I have no idea how the people came to those decisions. I'm just saying that the vast vast majority of writers produce a thoughtful ballot and the small percentage who don't aren't enough to mean the system needs an overhaul.

Except the 10-vote limit needs to go and I think it will.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Once again, if they want to keep guys out that are under suspicion then they should be turning in an empty ballot because everybody who played in this era should be under suspicion. If you have no proof you should shove your suspicions up your ass when you are voting.

I have very little doubt that Bagwell, Piazza and plenty of others used but he has not tested positive and without that who the hell am I or the writers to punish him?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

There are some voters who already do that, which is why there won't ever be a unanimous Hall of Famer.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof13/story/_/id/8825545/a-baseball-hall-fame-voter-blank-ballot

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/heatindex/articles/20121220nobody-deserves-my-hall-vote-year.html

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/09/nine-hall-of-fame-ballots-were-returned-blank/

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

You are trying so hard there, you contradicted yourself. First you say we know Piazza used. Then you say we don't know who used and who didn't.

You got it right on the latter. We don't know. Many of us THINK Piazza did it, but the strongest evidence is one reporter saying Piazza told other reporters off the record that he did it. Sorry, but that's not evidence.