Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

LongTimeListener · Dec 15, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Early 1990s?

Songbird · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Dick Whitman said:

Songbird said:

Maddux got all those backdoor strike 3's cuz of The Cream.
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You are adopting the, "Steroids don't help you hit a baseball" argument for pitchers?
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No I was just riffing off you.

WCIBN · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

buckweaver said:

Dick Whitman said:

Songbird said:

Of course it's a first-world problem.

But it's also about this: if you're going to do something, do it the right way, especially if you're a well-respected journalist of 30 years.

Greg Maddux: You don't even have to think twice about it.
Click to expand...

Not if you're exempting all PED era players.
Click to expand...

When did the "PED era" begin? Gurnick said "early 1990s" on the radio today, but a large part of Morris' case is because of a game he pitched in 1991. What the hell?
Click to expand...

In all probability the PED era started in the early '70s if not sooner. I base this on the late Lyle Alzado's revelation that he started using steroids in 1969. So if Alzado, a twenty year-old college football player at the time playing for a no-name college, was using steroids in '69, odds are that professional football players were using them around the same time if not sooner. So if they were found to 'help' in football, the odds are that someone in another professional sport like baseball would be willing to try it too.

Now if Gurnick's argument is that PED use didn't become rampant until after 1994, that's a different argument. He also then should explain what total percentage of players using PEDs is the cut-off line between condemning all players who played in that era from being considered HOF worthy rather than just the known and suspected cheaters. Why did he vote for Cal Ripken since he played through the 2001 season. If 1994 is the cut-off, Ripken played 7 of his 21 seasons in the "PEDs era". Why did he vote for him? Gurnick's inconsistency is a problem. If Gurnick didn't want to draw attention to himself and planned to stop voting for the HOF he should have just quietly stopped voting after 2012. I can only think of two reasons why Gurnick continued to vote. He wanted to draw attention to himself or he unrealistically thought that his vote was the final one Jack Morris would need to get elected and if he didn't vote Morris would fall one vote short. Which is it?

PCLoadLetter · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

WCIBN said:

buckweaver said:

Dick Whitman said:

Songbird said:

Of course it's a first-world problem.

But it's also about this: if you're going to do something, do it the right way, especially if you're a well-respected journalist of 30 years.

Greg Maddux: You don't even have to think twice about it.
Click to expand...

Not if you're exempting all PED era players.
Click to expand...

When did the "PED era" begin? Gurnick said "early 1990s" on the radio today, but a large part of Morris' case is because of a game he pitched in 1991. What the hell?
Click to expand...

In all probability the PED era started in the early '70s if not sooner. I base this on the late Lyle Alzado's revelation that he started using steroids in 1969. So if Alzado, a twenty year-old college football player at the time playing for a no-name college, was using steroids in '69, odds are that professional football players were using them around the same time if not sooner. So if they were found to 'help' in football, the odds are that someone in another professional sport like baseball would be willing to try it too.

Now if Gurnick's argument is that PED use didn't become rampant until after 1994, that's a different argument. He also then should explain what total percentage of players using PEDs is the cut-off line between condemning all players who played in that era from being considered HOF worthy rather than just the known and suspected cheaters. Why did he vote for Cal Ripken since he played through the 2001 season. If 1994 is the cut-off, Ripken played 7 of his 21 seasons in the "PEDs era". Why did he vote for him? Gurnick's inconsistency is a problem. If Gurnick didn't want to draw attention to himself and planned to stop voting for the HOF he should have just quietly stopped voting after 2012. I can only think of two reasons why Gurnick continued to vote. He wanted to draw attention to himself or he unrealistically thought that his vote was the final one Jack Morris would need to get elected and if he didn't vote Morris would fall one vote short. Which is it?
Click to expand...

A friend of mine was on steroids playing high school football in the really 80s. If they were being used by shitty backup high school tight ends in 1983, I'd say there's a chance a few pro baseball players had discovered them.

Della9250 · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I enjoyed the tweet that said the best Hall of Fame outcome ever is for Morris to get elected and then admit to using steroids.

Dick Whitman · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Are there any known users in other sports HOFs?

Steak Snabler · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Dick Whitman said:

Are there any known users in other sports HOFs?
Click to expand...

Mike Webster & Terry Bradshaw:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/25/sports/mike-webster-50-dies-troubled-football-hall-of-famer.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Terry-Bradshaw-was-all-roided-up?urn=nfl,89945

Dick Whitman · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Steak Snabler said:

Dick Whitman said:

Are there any known users in other sports HOFs?
Click to expand...

Mike Webster & Terry Bradshaw:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/25/sports/mike-webster-50-dies-troubled-football-hall-of-famer.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Terry-Bradshaw-was-all-roided-up?urn=nfl,89945
Click to expand...

But not known at the time of election, correct?

Steak Snabler · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Dick Whitman said:

Steak Snabler said:

Dick Whitman said:

Are there any known users in other sports HOFs?
Click to expand...

Mike Webster & Terry Bradshaw:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/25/sports/mike-webster-50-dies-troubled-football-hall-of-famer.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Terry-Bradshaw-was-all-roided-up?urn=nfl,89945
Click to expand...

But not known at the time of election, correct?
Click to expand...

I'd guess not.

Steak Snabler · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

JC said:

PCLoadLetter said:

WCIBN said:

buckweaver said:

Dick Whitman said:

Songbird said:

Of course it's a first-world problem.

But it's also about this: if you're going to do something, do it the right way, especially if you're a well-respected journalist of 30 years.

Greg Maddux: You don't even have to think twice about it.
Click to expand...

Not if you're exempting all PED era players.
Click to expand...

When did the "PED era" begin? Gurnick said "early 1990s" on the radio today, but a large part of Morris' case is because of a game he pitched in 1991. What the hell?
Click to expand...

In all probability the PED era started in the early '70s if not sooner. I base this on the late Lyle Alzado's revelation that he started using steroids in 1969. So if Alzado, a twenty year-old college football player at the time playing for a no-name college, was using steroids in '69, odds are that professional football players were using them around the same time if not sooner. So if they were found to 'help' in football, the odds are that someone in another professional sport like baseball would be willing to try it too.

Now if Gurnick's argument is that PED use didn't become rampant until after 1994, that's a different argument. He also then should explain what total percentage of players using PEDs is the cut-off line between condemning all players who played in that era from being considered HOF worthy rather than just the known and suspected cheaters. Why did he vote for Cal Ripken since he played through the 2001 season. If 1994 is the cut-off, Ripken played 7 of his 21 seasons in the "PEDs era". Why did he vote for him? Gurnick's inconsistency is a problem. If Gurnick didn't want to draw attention to himself and planned to stop voting for the HOF he should have just quietly stopped voting after 2012. I can only think of two reasons why Gurnick continued to vote. He wanted to draw attention to himself or he unrealistically thought that his vote was the final one Jack Morris would need to get elected and if he didn't vote Morris would fall one vote short. Which is it?
Click to expand...

A friend of mine was on steroids playing high school football in the really 80s. If they were being used by shitty backup high school tight ends in 1983, I'd say there's a chance a few pro baseball players had discovered them.
Click to expand...

I had friends in high school taking them to look better, no other reason. Half my junior hockey team was taking them in the early 90's. They've been around forever.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there was an American League outfielder in the early 1980s --- not a superstar, but a good player on a good team --- who was always credited with being an "avid weightlifter." I've always wondered if he was one of the early PED users.

JC · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I think people need to watch the 303 for 30 on Ben Johnson.

3_Octave_Fart · Jan 7, 2014

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Steak Snabler said:

JC said:

PCLoadLetter said:

WCIBN said:

buckweaver said:

Dick Whitman said:

Songbird said:

Of course it's a first-world problem.

But it's also about this: if you're going to do something, do it the right way, especially if you're a well-respected journalist of 30 years.

Greg Maddux: You don't even have to think twice about it.
Click to expand...

Not if you're exempting all PED era players.
Click to expand...

When did the "PED era" begin? Gurnick said "early 1990s" on the radio today, but a large part of Morris' case is because of a game he pitched in 1991. What the hell?
Click to expand...

In all probability the PED era started in the early '70s if not sooner. I base this on the late Lyle Alzado's revelation that he started using steroids in 1969. So if Alzado, a twenty year-old college football player at the time playing for a no-name college, was using steroids in '69, odds are that professional football players were using them around the same time if not sooner. So if they were found to 'help' in football, the odds are that someone in another professional sport like baseball would be willing to try it too.

Now if Gurnick's argument is that PED use didn't become rampant until after 1994, that's a different argument. He also then should explain what total percentage of players using PEDs is the cut-off line between condemning all players who played in that era from being considered HOF worthy rather than just the known and suspected cheaters. Why did he vote for Cal Ripken since he played through the 2001 season. If 1994 is the cut-off, Ripken played 7 of his 21 seasons in the "PEDs era". Why did he vote for him? Gurnick's inconsistency is a problem. If Gurnick didn't want to draw attention to himself and planned to stop voting for the HOF he should have just quietly stopped voting after 2012. I can only think of two reasons why Gurnick continued to vote. He wanted to draw attention to himself or he unrealistically thought that his vote was the final one Jack Morris would need to get elected and if he didn't vote Morris would fall one vote short. Which is it?
Click to expand...

A friend of mine was on steroids playing high school football in the really 80s. If they were being used by shitty backup high school tight ends in 1983, I'd say there's a chance a few pro baseball players had discovered them.
Click to expand...

I had friends in high school taking them to look better, no other reason. Half my junior hockey team was taking them in the early 90's. They've been around forever.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there was an American League outfielder in the early 1980s --- not a superstar, but a good player on a good team --- who was always credited with being an "avid weightlifter." I've always wondered if he was one of the early PED users.
Click to expand...

Brian Downing.
He was built like a brick shithouse.
During a time of 160-pound infielders.

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Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Who will be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame this year?

Jeff Bagwell

Craig Biggio

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Tom Glavine

Jeff Kent

Greg Maddux

Edgar Martinez

Don Mattingly

Fred McGriff

Mark McGwire

Jack Morris

Mike Mussina

Rafael Palmeiro

Mike Piazza

Tim Raines

Curt Schilling

Lee Smith

Sammy Sosa

Frank Thomas

Alan Trammell

Larry Walker

LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

Songbird Well-Known Member

WCIBN Active Member

PCLoadLetter Well-Known Member

Della9250 Well-Known Member

Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

JC Well-Known Member

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

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Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Who will be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame this year?

Jeff Bagwell

Craig Biggio

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Tom Glavine

Jeff Kent

Greg Maddux

Edgar Martinez

Don Mattingly

Fred McGriff

Mark McGwire

Jack Morris

Mike Mussina

Rafael Palmeiro

Mike Piazza

Tim Raines

Curt Schilling

Lee Smith

Sammy Sosa

Frank Thomas

Alan Trammell

Larry Walker

LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

Songbird Well-Known Member

WCIBN Active Member

PCLoadLetter Well-Known Member

Della9250 Well-Known Member

Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

JC Well-Known Member

3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

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