Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

There are, to me, a couple of reasons that Bonds and Clemens, in particular, get dinged by HOF voters even though I can see a Big Papi or a Pettite getting more support in the future.

In Bonds's case, it is that PEDs seemed to cause a complete transformation, both in appearance and in his game, late in his career. There is no question that Bonds was a Willie Mays-caliber HOFer before PEDs likely began in earnest. He was a five-tool player, hitting home runs at a moderate pace, stealing bases, getting on base, and playing Gold Glove outfield. And, physically, he was lithe. After PEDs, he became a dead-pull home run machine who didn't steal bases and whose knees could barely keep him on his feet in the outfield by the end. (Of course, that's not necessarily unusual among 40-somethings.) And he blew up, including his hat size.

In Clemens's case, he didn't change as a pitcher. He was an extreme power pitcher, as he always had been. But I think what bothers people is that he seemed to be done his last couple years in Boston. He was winding up a career somewhere between Johan Santana and Roy Halladay. And then he went to Toronto, presumably started a PED regimen, and was good as new for a few more years.

Of course, in Clemens's case, that timeline might be as much of an argument in favor of PEDs as against, but it's tough for people to see it that way yet. And it will probably be that way for a long time, because internationally, doping is even more stigmatized than it is in the United States.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

This claim that Jack Morris pitched in "the steroid era" reminds me of the famous "exact words" episode on the Brady Bunch.

Yes, I'm sure some players used steroids while Jack Morris was active. There.

But to me, the "steroid era" is not about whether a single player was using, but about whether use was rampant enough to change the game. That clearly did not happen until the very very end of Morris career (93 or 94, as Gurnick said).

I don't agree with the decision to omit "all players from the steroid era" at all, but if that's what you feel is right (and the argument to do so is that they all were accessories in the games failure to prevent steroid use), it's logical to argue that Maddux pitched throughout the "steroid era" and Morris did not.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I believe in Bonds' case much of it stems from how much he improved using PEDs. He went from a Hall of Famer to one of the two best batters (maybe the best) of all time, and shattered records by ridiculous amounts. It's as if Lance Armstrong was winning the Tour de France by three or four day margins. This improvement was impossible to ignore, making it quite clear how much sportswriters had ignored PEDs previously.
My bottom line is that the anger over the PED users among Hall voters stems primarily from guilt over their own performance as journalists in that era.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

My thought on Bonds and Clemens is simple: People don't care if you used UNTIL you start rewriting the record books.

People don't care if the "good" players were cheating.

People DO care if the best of the best were only so because they cheated.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Agree with every word. Yep.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

In my humble opinion, if a voter is going to use that philosophy so ardently to rationalize not voting for someone like Maddux, he/she better define the "steroid era" as clearly as possible.

Maddux is as slam-dunk a candidate as exists, and was excluded on that ballot based solely on a timeframe Gurnick decided to label the "steroid era."

If he's going to do something like that, it's perfectly fair to criticize him for voting for someone else who also played in the cited timeframe.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

That's well-said. Having grown up in the Bay Area, I think it's safe to say the steroid era started at least five years before the 1992-93 timeline that Seamhead Von Douchenstein cited. Maybe he missed the Bash Brothers. It might not have been as widespread for another 5+ years, but his random date is just stupid.

Also, doesn't Maddux playing in the Steroid Era make his accomplishments all the more impressive? He was 37 before he had an ERA higher than Morris' stellar 3.90 mark.

If 1998 was the height of the Steroid use, Maddux had a 2.22 ERA that season. He's also someone who was never a power pitcher like Clemens or Schilling or Randy Johnson where steroid use comes into question. I'm sure there are a lot of 6-foot, 160 pound steroid users. I've stood next to Maddux before and if ever there is a player who you can say with 99.9999 percent certainty wasn't juicing, it's him.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

By the way, since when do MLB.com writers have a HOF vote? They couldn't be in the BBWAA when I covered baseball, because they are essentially flaks, and they wouldn't have 10 years of service by now even if the rule regrettably was changed. Are the guys voting ones who gained their vote as print writers before joining the dark side?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I don't think they're seen as flaks the way they were a decade ago. There are a lot of great reportes at MLB.com and the NFL Network. I think it's simply that you have to be an active member of the BBWAA and have covered baseball for a decade. I know people who covered baseball early in their careers, but have covered something different for the last 10-15 years and they still have HOF votes.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

He said 93-94 ... and this tends to agree with that....

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml

Year R/G
2013 4.17
2012 4.32
2011 4.28
2010 4.38
2009 4.61
2008 4.65
2007 4.80
2006 4.86
2005 4.59
2004 4.81
2003 4.73
2002 4.62
2001 4.78
2000 5.14
1999 5.08
1998 4.79
1997 4.77
1996 5.04
1995 4.85
1994 4.92
1993 4.60
1992 4.12
1991 4.31
1990 4.26
1989 4.13
1988 4.14
1987 4.72
1986 4.41
1985 4.33
1984 4.26
1983 4.31
1982 4.30

Morris pitched just the very tail end of his career during that era.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

There are certainly some great reporters at both sites.

But now they are all flaks.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I've always gotten the sense they're pretty lax on the rules. I have a friend who started out covering baseball and then covered colleges for a decade and then went back to baseball and he's probably only covered baseball for 5-6 full seasons and he has a vote because in their mind he's covered the sport since 1997.