Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

To clarify, this is what I think "(p)eople" are doing or thinking, which was what MC said. It is not necessarily what I would do or how I think.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I'm just trying to highlight the absurdity of his rationale. He doesn't apply any critical thinking whatsoever to excluding Maddux. So why should I do so when criticizing him?

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

No, he did it for another irrational reason.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Can a reason be irrational?

In all seriousness, I agree with you ... not voting for someone to make sure that someone's not unanimously elected is, to me, as stupid as not voting for someone simply because he played in a tainted era.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Back to this for the moment.

What, Dick, do you know that makes the hitting-a-baseball argument invalid? I know I could pump myself full of the cream, and I'm still not catching up to an 85-mph fastball.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

That's not a very good test for this supposition. I don't know how skilled you are at hitting. But if you are, say, a high school-caliber talent, steroids may not help you catch up to a 85 mph heat. But they will certainly help you turn around 75 mph with mor ferocity than without them.

Not that power hitters haven't come in small packages before. But, in general, there is a reason that Jum Thome hit home runs and Ozzie Guillen did not. Thome is bigger and stronger. Apply that logic to steroids. There is a reason that Barry Bonds 2.0 hit more home runs than Barry Bonds 1.0. That reason is that 2.0 was bigger and stronger.

Bonds, Giambi, and others weren't injecting this stuff to look good at the beach. They were injecting them because they helped them hit baseballs harder and farther than they could without them. Some physicists have even estimated how much harder and farther, with the research cited in one of the recent Baseball Prospectus publications.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

As Dick said, the crux of the argument is not whether breaking the rules regarding PEDs helped make players better, but that they broke the rules because they believed it would make them better.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

It may be his reason, but it is not rational.

And I get that it is not any real tragedy in the life of Greg Maddux if he gets in, but doesn't get the unanimous vote he deserves. I'm more concerned with the borderline Hall of Famer not getting votes for some idiotic reason, which is what has been happening to Jeff Bagwell, because there is some potential for harm there.

That said, the issue isn't so much potential harm to the candidates as it is wanting to see voters do things the right way. Whether they cause harm or not, those that do not deserve to be criticized for it.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

What will probably be the final update with half-hour until the announcement -- 36.6 percent of last year's total (208 ballots)

99.5 - Maddux
95.7 - Glavine
89.4 - F. Thomas
79.3 - Biggio
———————————
67.8 - Piazza
61.5 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
56.3 - Bagwell
54.3 - Raines
42.3 - Bonds
40.9 - Clemens
36.5 - Schilling
26.4 - Mussina
25.5 - E. Martinez
24.0 - L. Smith
22.1 - Trammell
15.9 - Kent
12.0 - McGriff
10.6 - McGwire
8.2 - L. Walker
7.2 - S. Sosa
5.8 - R. Palmeiro
———————————
4.8 - Mattingly
0.5 - P. Rose (Write-In)

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

In this day and age there aren't too many players left who you can't justify (or shouldn't be able to justify) not voting for.

There are a handful of pitchers, but once Biggio and Thomas go in, Griffey, Jeter and maybe Ichiro are the only HOF candidates where there isn't some level of controversy.

I'm sure in five years there will be some douchebag who leaves Rivera off the ballot because he doesn't vote for relievers.

 

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

If the number of ballots stays the same:

Morris needs 301 of the unknown 364 to vote for him
Biggio needs 265 of the unknown 364 to vote for him