Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

If you are going to take PED's the threat of no hall of fame at the end will have no effect.

I don't think it's as rampant as it was but I do believe players are still taking stuff. Drugs and supplements that we have no clue about.

 

What? MLB started drug testing in 2002. Why would players being taking them more now, as opposed to before they had to worry about tests?

 

Your mention of "(d)rugs and supplements that we have no clue about" leads to a question that I never see asked: If the BALCO drugs that Bonds was using were actually not illegal at that time - and I think that's accurate - is it fair to not vote for him? Were they, at the time, essentially elite, experimental supplements?

 

What I mean is more frequently now than they do, since JC said that people won't stop taking stuff under thread of punishment, because they don't think they'll get caught.

 

Removing a player from future HOF consideration may not deter all athletes from using PEDs, but it might stop a few. And isn't that worth it?

It would also end the debate - if he was caught, you're not allowed to vote for him; if he wasn't caught, you have no reason not to. Like I've said, suspicions are BS - none of us can know, so that's a stupid reason not to vote for someone.

 

I'd have a hard time instituting a lifetime HOF ban on a teen-ager or 21-year-old like Jose Quintana or Jordan Schafer.

 

I wouldn't. They're old enough to know that actions have consequences.

 

I worded it wrong. I do think the new testing punishments do have an effect on players, I don't think something in regards to the hall of fame would have any effect on these players.

 

The neat thing about the HOF is there isn't one standard. The confounding thing about the HOF is that there isn't one standard.

Here's where I fall on Biggio: For a game based so largely on hitting, to leave out a guy who is 21st all time in hits out of the million or so players who have been in the major leagues just seems wrong. The HOF is in some measure a lifetime achievement award. Everyone in there was on some level a compiler. I think Biggio compiled enough.

 

Nolan Ryan compiled too many walks. Shouldn't be in.

 

Maddux has been eating well since he left the game:

 

I thought this was an interesting point made by Bill James yesterday on Clubhouse Confidential:

If you are dedicated to eliminating steroids out of the game in the future, by all means fight that fight. But we certainly can't change what did happen in the past, and I do agree it's impossible to keep steroid users out of the Hall of Fame. It's not a fight worth fighting.

And the witch hunt that it's led to is monumentally stupid. Ken Gurnick has publicly staked out the position that Greg Maddux is no different than Barry Bonds. That Craig Biggio is no different from Rafael Palmeiro. And, essentially, that a pitcher like Ted Lyons is more worthy of the Hall of Fame than Pedro Martinez. Those positions are indefensible.

There is absolutely no way that argument is going to win the day, when it's all said and done.