Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

Sticking his head in the sand is exactly what he's doing. Hell, he even brags about it.

 

There is no mistake to "gloss over" regarding playoff stats counting or not counting. Tom Glavine goes into the Hall of Fame with 305 wins, not 319. Good thing Ernie Banks didn't need playoff stats to further (or enhance) his cause. Not every great Hall of Famer was afforded the chance to play on great teams. But I'll get back to this in a second.

To clear another thing up: Yes, bigpern compared the 2, and I've played along. But they're still separate players with separate resumes. Mussina didn't not get into the Hall of Fame because he was compared against Glavine.

Tom Glavine's overall playoff resume is not so great compared with Mussina's resume, but I did make one mistake: 35 starts. Glavine made 35 starts. In those 35 starts he had a 14-16 record with a 3.30 ERA. Yeah, I based my 53% on 30 starts. I should have based 16 losses on 35 starts. I don't know what happened in those 5 no-decisions -- perhaps a Braves guy can find out to see if he did well in those games and the bullpen choked or if he sucked and the team rallied last or whatever the case may have been. But we know that the Braves, despite winning the division title 14 years in a row, only got to the WS 5 times, and won it just once. I'm not sure what you're getting at by making "team success" part of the equation. What am I missing here?

And because you ... well, statistically speaking, Glavine was money in the World Series -- a 2.12 ERA in 58.1 IP is indisputable. He did better in his time in the World Series than Mussina did during his time in the World Series. And yet Glavine gave up on average almost 5 runs every NLDS start (10) whereas Mussina's ERA stayed 3.60 or lower in the ALDS, ALCS or WS -- 3.42 career in the playoffs. Is 3.30 better than 3.42? Yes, OOP, 3.30 is better than 3.42. Is that .12 difference so much more important in your book? Or is it 3.30 and THE RING!??!!

You also say the final season "tends to be that way" -- but do you truly think Mussina would have gone to shit after a 200-inning, sub-4 season as a 39-year-old?

For shits and giggles, would you vote Glavine into the Hall with the same stats even if the Braves never made the playoffs? Of course you would. But would you vote Mussina into the Hall with the same stats if the Orioles and Yanks never made the playoffs? Don't compare. Base it on what Mussina did in 18 regular seasons.

 

Is this a 2 player conversation because you all think Schilling is more or less worthy than Mussina & Glavine. I would say less, but I'm not sure too many of you would agree, in which case it's worth figuring out where he fits in.

 

Very nice regular numbers ...

... and Hall of Fame playoff numbers.

 

I would have voted for both Mussina and Glavine if I had unlimited spots. As it was I ranked Glavine ahead of him because of the Cy Young awards and the fact he hung around to get 300 wins. I think Glavine's last two years pulled down his ERA to make him look closer to mussina, who quit on top. I try not to penalize guys for playing too long.

 

Joe Williams, I am sorry if my sentence was worded so that it did not convey my point that the differences among voters on the PED issue are irreconcilable and based on principle on both sides. It wasn't I'm right and they're wrong.

 

Xan, I know I wouldn't want somebody with a Hall vote thinking this way. But then again, I'm no Hall voter.

I just have this feeling, as a fairly well-informed East Coast baseball fan, that Glavine was considered one of two stoppers (maybe three) on the Braves. I don't recall Mussina being considered a stopper. I remember that Mike Mussina could get knocked around pretty well.

Again, totally subjective and in no way scientific. Just my smell test.

 

And this is why I'm worried the people think the process works because three guys got in this time.

The next ballot

Johnson = Maddux votes
Glavine = Pedro votes
Thomas = Smoltz votes

If you are one of the nearly 300 people who voted all 10 slots, there's a good chance you only have three open. And they are already filled.

It's why Biggio just missing is huge. If he had gotten in along with Morris dropping off, there were going to be hundreds of slots open for the guys people didn't have room for. Now all the Biggio people have to stay Biggio people and we know most of the Morris people aren't using full ballots anyway.

For things to even out you have to hope that Unit, Pedro, Smoltz and Biggio go in. Griffey is the only lock for 2016 depending on what you think voters will do with Hoffman, based on how the vote goes next year.

 

Gotcha now. Thanks. I agree with you.

 

The era was filthy? Better get in touch with all those screaming there's no evidence against Bagwell and Piazza, as justification for voting for them as opposed to McGwire, Palmeiro, Bonds, Clemens, etc. Wait, so everybody was using? Apologists gotta get these stories straight.

Plenty of wrongdoing gets done under people's noses, who are "clueless" until it is discovered. That's where lying and lax oversight comes in. Think Bernie Madoff. Imagine what he could have done with the MLBPA running interference for him.

Bottom line, it's the Hall of Fame, the vote is based in large part on opinion and there's a character component in the charter. If they want to make it the Hall of Statistical Achievements, with automatic triggers for certain totals or records, they can have at it.

Lastly, you get down to the name-calling pretty quickly, which doesn't speak well of your powers of persuasion.

 

Says the guy who constantly brags about hiding.

Again, with this failure in logic. The people who disagree with you are NOT one monolithic group. Some argue that everybody was dirty. Others argue that voters should stick to punishing only those who are proven PED users. By lumping those groups together, you are creating a false inconsistency.

JC could very well be right about one thing when he suggests that you and others are desperate to punish the PED users because they got away with it on your watch.

 

Why would you actually start out like that? Why wouldn't you just think to make your fair point ... and stop playing defense?