Meanwhile on the International front....

Saying that Israel can't just stop and play nice with Hamas isn't the same thing as lacking compassion for Palestinians. I do think the ones who support Hamas, and that seems to be most of them, are just being stupid. Hamas is holding them up as human shields and they somehow think those are the good guys?

 

Let's see if this does anything.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...gQFnoECCMQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0pQPpfiLzusEMgwVE30HsL

 

I agree with all of that. But you can't negotiate with yourself.
Has Hamas broached the possibility of a surrender or negotiations?
Have any international groups condemned them for continuing to fight while their people are suffering?
Has Hamas given any indication that they are willing to coexist with Israel?
Has Hamas released any of the hostages it's been holding for two months as a show of good faith, and not just as a condition for aid and supplies?

For this war to end, Hamas has to want it to end as much as Israel does. It doesn't seem that Hamas wants that, which really gives Israel no other options but to keep going.

 

When was Foreign Policy ever about anything but power and self interest?


It's only ethnic cleansing if Israel kills or runs off all of the Palestinians. Their choice to make, and to live with.

No reason to bother to negotiate? So it's still "from the river to the sea", it just depends on who isn't there any more?

I do not believe either of these things are how this will end.

 

I didn't say there is no reason to bother to negotiate. I think you need to realize how unrealistic that is as a solution given that Hamas would likely use any cease-fire to regroup and pull another Oct. 7.

 

And I think that there is no way to end it other than negotiation. It's that or just keep killing each other for another couple of thousand years.

I have no axe to grind with Israel. I simply oppose this in the same way that I do Russia targeting schools, apartment buildings, hospitals and power plants in Ukraine. The U.S. sets and tries to enforce rules of engagement that minimizes as much civilian carnage as possible. It can be done, but leadership has to set and enforce those rules. They can't be PR lip service.

I'm all in favor of Israel killing every Hamas leader they can locate.

 

The comparison to Russia doesn't hold up, either. Israel didn't start this by invading to take more territory. They are responding to a terrorist attack. Ukraine isn't promising to murder more Russians the minute it gets a chance. Again, it is damn easy to suggest Israel should switch to tactics that will get more of its own people killed from the comfort of your home (Or wherever you are when you post).

I made a mistake. I shouldn't have used the word likely. Hamas will use any negotiated peace as an opportunity to regroup and launch another terrorist attack on Israeli civilians. I know this because they have told us as much. They won't stop as long as Israel exists. At some point, you might want to start dealing with reality.

 

The other side of this is that I'm quite aware of the history of how the various wars have started since 1948. I just hope for a Sadat to be on the other end one of these days, someone with the vision and charisma to bring it off. And yes, I'm quite aware of how Sadat died as well.

To my mind this is never going to end until both the Israelis and the Palestinians have their own homeland. It might not end even then, because there's always another country or sect of horse's asses who comes along and screws things up for everyone.

 

I'm not comparing Israel to Russia. I'm comparing kids killed by drones to kids killed by bombs.

 

I've watched presidents struggle to find a formula for peace in the Middle East since 1967 or so. I *know* there are no good answers.

I need to just stay out of this thread, but I scan it and next thing I know I posted again.


My problem is that the solution you seem to embrace is to just keep killing them until the terrorist attacks stop, because you don't trust them to make peace.

I suppose the hope is that the general Palestinian population kills every Hamas they can find to make the bombing stop. The problem is that the bombing manufactures more Hamas every day.

 

Excellent thread.

 

Austin Returns to Israel With a Tougher Message and Lessons Learned

After three years as President Biden’s quiet man at the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III stepped off his plane at Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv on Monday and into the limelight.

It was his second visit to the region since Israel launched a war in Gaza in retaliation for the Hamas-led terrorist attack on Oct. 7. During meetings and conversations with Israeli officials, Mr. Austin has stressed both the Biden administration’s support for Israel and concerns about the rising Palestinian death toll.