Meanwhile on the International front....

Israel-Hamas war live: Israel vows to ‘teach the UN a lesson’ as row over secretary-general’s speech escalates

 

Elite Universities Face Donor Revolt Over Mideast Conflict

 

As ever, please spare a thought for our colleagues:

Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza conflict - Committee to Protect Journalists

 

Haaretz | Israel News, the Middle East and the Jewish World - Haaretz.com

 

I made an observation, unattached to any allegations. When you start dropping artillery shells and aerial bombs into a place as crowded as the Strip, there will be unintended casualties. If the IDF goes in there with a full bore ground invasion, there will be unintended casualties. There will be people, including non-combatant women and children, killed or maimed whose only offense was to be born there.

Hamas making terror attacks on Israelis does not make it any better if Israel does these things. This is what makes this conflict such a moral dilemma.

I have zero trust in Hamas, none.

The Germans killed millions in the death camps. Our, and the world's, response was not to build death camps and run a few hundred thousand Germans through them to show them the error of their ways. We found, tried, and executed the responsible leaders we could get our hands on. Israel did the same well after Nuremburg.

War is inevitably ugly and messy. Today we have options that were not available during WWII which allow targeting to be less indiscriminate. The laws of war are there to protect both sides.

I also understand what will happen if a righteously angry IDF ground invasion goes in. There will be... excesses, and some of them, whether they become known or not, may well approach the same level of horror for those involved.

As a guy with one eye that functions as intended, I have a certain perspective on the results of "An eye for an eye."

 

In World War II we also firebombed Dresden, Tokyo and a few other cities and dropped two atomic bombs to finally break the strong will of a determined enemy.
It's absolutely cold-blooded, but that's what it often takes in any fight. You can't just defeat somebody's army, you have to break the will and the spirit of their population. You have to make them not want to fight anymore, both today and well into the future.

I agree with your point on an IDF ground invasion. And two wrongs do not make a right. Unfortunately, it also seems we're at a point in time where anything less than a brutal, ugly war is not an option. Those are the rules that have been laid down. Hamas doesn't seem eager to lay down their arms so if Israel does not definitively break their will, and by extension the will of the Palestinians, this is destined to go on forever and it will get even worse.
As we've stated time and again on this thread, there are no good options here. There is also no way out. If they don't treat this as a fight to the death, they will eventually cease to exist as a country and maybe as a people. If they don't treat it that way, it could easily blow up into World War III. It's not a matter of doing what they want to do, I think it's a matter of doing what they have to do.

 

I'm glad you think this. Others think differently, which doesn't seem to be allowed on this thread.

 

<shrug> I stated my opinion. I fully expect it to draw fire from those who disagree most vehemently. Other opinions will have to stand or fall on their own validity and the degree of support found in this audience.

 

So, before they even go in, you are assuming the IDF will commit war crimes similar to the terrorist attack by Hamas Oct. 7. That is utter bullshit.

Some of the actions you are describing as war crimes are actually just what war really is. I'm sorry so many people here don't understand that.

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon

 

There are other threads on this board where differing opinions are discouraged. Might as well add another one.

 

Wake me when they start hacking off heads and limbs and intentionally lighting civilians on fire.