Merged: The Imus threads

jaredk · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

To convert the sexist bully bigot (as if that's possible), Sally Jenkins wants him in a scarlet R....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/11/AR2007041102518_pf.html

Ben_Hecht · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

Jackson's a corporate shakedown artist, and little more . . . Al's simply an embarassment.

Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!! · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

friend of the friendless said:

Sirs, Madames,

I think everyone has missed the most important point.

Who is Don Imus to talk about anyone's hair?

YHS, etc
Click to expand...

Phil Specter

jason_whitlock · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

jgmacg said:

This is already up on the one of the Sports/News Imus threads. I asked a set of questions about this piece over there, but everybody's been too hot under the collar to respond. I'll repost them here:

1) Sharpton and Jackson aren’t the only folks up in arms about this. I believe the NABJ was the first group to call for Imus’s firing. They did so late last week (Apr. 6). That every social and cultural movement in this country’s history has had its share of charlatans and con men and snake oil salesmen, including Dr. King’s, is well known. Is Mr. Whitlock saying now that the entire movement toward civility in language and behavior, both black and white, can only be defined by the least trustworthy participants in the discussion?

2) The sports media establishment in this country spends two months a year and hundreds of millions of dollars reminding America what a defining moment March Madness is to â€œstudent-athletes." What Mr. Whitlock is saying now, by denying Stringer and her players the right to be upset and to express themselves in any way they see fit, is that it’s not really very important at all. Which is it? And why does it matter that Imus is not himself a member of that sports media establishment? His comments were directly addressed to the women of the Rutgers team.

3) This piece is more about who’s qualified to moderate our national discussion on race than it is about the discussion itself. That Ms. Stringer isn’t Dr. King, and that her press conference doesn’t rise to the level of his oratory, is beside the point.

4) Just because prejudice exists in one place doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in other places, too. If the Imus story provides the occasion for a further, deeper discussion about the self-loathing nature of gangsta rap lyrics, why should Mr. Whitlock care how that discussion began? And why argue over who gets to chair the discussion?

5) That history grinds forward only slowly, and imprecisely, should be of no more concern to Mr. Whitlock than who gets caught up in the gears in the process. History presents its opportunities at random. Imus’s careerlong devotion to half-assed wisecracks finally caught up with him. Imus isn’t Lenny Bruce, nor is he Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle. There is no consciousness-raising intention in his choice of material, and he should receive no special exemption for perpetuating the kind of casual cruelty that Mr. Whitlock decries.

6) As to the public nature of this story, and whether it's germane to the outcome, ask yourself this: If you used Imus or McGuirk's language to describe a colleague in your workplace, how much longer would you have your job?
Click to expand...

JG

You ask too many questions at once. I do the best I can. If I don't answer 'em all or only answer one (like I'm about to) don't think I'm ducking them. I'm just getting pulled a lot of directions. I wrote 2 columns on this topic in a span of 12 hours. I don't pull this stuff out of my rear as much as people like to think.

I don't know if this answers any of your questions but this is my belief: It is horribly ineffective to ask one group of people to give you more respect than you're willing to give yourself. As long as we (black folks) call each other bitches, ho's and N-words or passively tolerate other black folks calling us bitches, ho's and N-words we should not be surprised or fly off the handle when a white shock jock calls us a bitch, ho or N-word.

Throughout the history of mankind, no man has ever been given more respect than he's willing to give himself. Period.

We have a culture in crisis (hip hop/gangsta/prison culture) and we're celebrating Don Imus' demise and picketing white radio stations that wouldn't begin to play the filth that is aired on black-owned radio stations.

That's all I got right now.

One love, everybody.

jgmacg · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

jason_whitlock said:

jgmacg said:

This is already up on the one of the Sports/News Imus threads. I asked a set of questions about this piece over there, but everybody's been too hot under the collar to respond. I'll repost them here:

1) Sharpton and Jackson aren’t the only folks up in arms about this. I believe the NABJ was the first group to call for Imus’s firing. They did so late last week (Apr. 6). That every social and cultural movement in this country’s history has had its share of charlatans and con men and snake oil salesmen, including Dr. King’s, is well known. Is Mr. Whitlock saying now that the entire movement toward civility in language and behavior, both black and white, can only be defined by the least trustworthy participants in the discussion?

2) The sports media establishment in this country spends two months a year and hundreds of millions of dollars reminding America what a defining moment March Madness is to â€œstudent-athletes." What Mr. Whitlock is saying now, by denying Stringer and her players the right to be upset and to express themselves in any way they see fit, is that it’s not really very important at all. Which is it? And why does it matter that Imus is not himself a member of that sports media establishment? His comments were directly addressed to the women of the Rutgers team.

3) This piece is more about who’s qualified to moderate our national discussion on race than it is about the discussion itself. That Ms. Stringer isn’t Dr. King, and that her press conference doesn’t rise to the level of his oratory, is beside the point.

4) Just because prejudice exists in one place doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in other places, too. If the Imus story provides the occasion for a further, deeper discussion about the self-loathing nature of gangsta rap lyrics, why should Mr. Whitlock care how that discussion began? And why argue over who gets to chair the discussion?

5) That history grinds forward only slowly, and imprecisely, should be of no more concern to Mr. Whitlock than who gets caught up in the gears in the process. History presents its opportunities at random. Imus’s careerlong devotion to half-assed wisecracks finally caught up with him. Imus isn’t Lenny Bruce, nor is he Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle. There is no consciousness-raising intention in his choice of material, and he should receive no special exemption for perpetuating the kind of casual cruelty that Mr. Whitlock decries.

6) As to the public nature of this story, and whether it's germane to the outcome, ask yourself this: If you used Imus or McGuirk's language to describe a colleague in your workplace, how much longer would you have your job?
Click to expand...

JG

You ask too many questions at once. I do the best I can. If I don't answer 'em all or only answer one (like I'm about to) don't think I'm ducking them. I'm just getting pulled a lot of directions. I wrote 2 columns on this topic in a span of 2 hours. I don't pull this stuff out of my rear as much as people like to think.

I don't know if this answers any of your questions but this is my belief: It is horribly ineffective to ask one group of people to give you more respect than you're willing to give yourself. As long as we (black folks) call each other bitches, ho's and N-words or passively tolerate other black folks calling us bitches, ho's and N-words we should not be surprised or fly off the handle when a white shock jock calls us a bitch, ho or N-word.

Throughout the history of mankind, no man has ever been given more respect than he's willing to give himself. Period.

We have a culture in crisis (hip hop/gangsta/prison culture) and we're celebrating Don Imus' demise and picketing white radio stations that wouldn't begin to play the filth that is aired on black-owned radio stations.

That's all I got right now.

One love, everybody.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post, JW, I'm sure you're swamped. And I didn't mean to imply that only you, or you specifically, hadn't responded. Rather that there was so much happening on the other threads yesterday that no one was responding to anything. It was a day for heated assertions here, not reflection.

And my comments or questions are, as usual, only meant as a way to engage other sides of the arguments. Mostly as a craft issue on behalf of the less experienced writers here. Have a good Thursday.

Fenian_Bastard · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

jason_whitlock said:

jgmacg said:

This is already up on the one of the Sports/News Imus threads. I asked a set of questions about this piece over there, but everybody's been too hot under the collar to respond. I'll repost them here:

1) Sharpton and Jackson arent the only folks up in arms about this. I believe the NABJ was the first group to call for Imuss firing. They did so late last week (Apr. 6). That every social and cultural movement in this countrys history has had its share of charlatans and con men and snake oil salesmen, including Dr. Kings, is well known. Is Mr. Whitlock saying now that the entire movement toward civility in language and behavior, both black and white, can only be defined by the least trustworthy participants in the discussion?

2) The sports media establishment in this country spends two months a year and hundreds of millions of dollars reminding America what a defining moment March Madness is to student-athletes." What Mr. Whitlock is saying now, by denying Stringer and her players the right to be upset and to express themselves in any way they see fit, is that its not really very important at all. Which is it? And why does it matter that Imus is not himself a member of that sports media establishment? His comments were directly addressed to the women of the Rutgers team.

3) This piece is more about whos qualified to moderate our national discussion on race than it is about the discussion itself. That Ms. Stringer isnt Dr. King, and that her press conference doesnt rise to the level of his oratory, is beside the point.

4) Just because prejudice exists in one place doesnt mean it doesnt exist in other places, too. If the Imus story provides the occasion for a further, deeper discussion about the self-loathing nature of gangsta rap lyrics, why should Mr. Whitlock care how that discussion began? And why argue over who gets to chair the discussion?

5) That history grinds forward only slowly, and imprecisely, should be of no more concern to Mr. Whitlock than who gets caught up in the gears in the process. History presents its opportunities at random. Imuss careerlong devotion to half-assed wisecracks finally caught up with him. Imus isnt Lenny Bruce, nor is he Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle. There is no consciousness-raising intention in his choice of material, and he should receive no special exemption for perpetuating the kind of casual cruelty that Mr. Whitlock decries.

6) As to the public nature of this story, and whether it's germane to the outcome, ask yourself this: If you used Imus or McGuirk's language to describe a colleague in your workplace, how much longer would you have your job?
Click to expand...

JG

You ask too many questions at once. I do the best I can. If I don't answer 'em all or only answer one (like I'm about to) don't think I'm ducking them. I'm just getting pulled a lot of directions. I wrote 2 columns on this topic in a span of 12 hours. I don't pull this stuff out of my rear as much as people like to think.

I don't know if this answers any of your questions but this is my belief: It is horribly ineffective to ask one group of people to give you more respect than you're willing to give yourself. As long as we (black folks) call each other bitches, ho's and N-words or passively tolerate other black folks calling us bitches, ho's and N-words we should not be surprised or fly off the handle when a white shock jock calls us a bitch, ho or N-word.

Throughout the history of mankind, no man has ever been given more respect than he's willing to give himself. Period.

We have a culture in crisis (hip hop/gangsta/prison culture) and we're celebrating Don Imus' demise and picketing white radio stations that wouldn't begin to play the filth that is aired on black-owned radio stations.

That's all I got right now.

One love, everybody.
Click to expand...

Thanks for letting us off the hook, JW.
I'm going to start pitching a race-baiting radio program now and get rich.
This is an argument that goes back decades. It was made against jazz and against the blues by Talented 10th theorists who believed that the attendant criminal elements attached to those two art forms tarred the overall fight against American apartheid. "How can we expect to be treated with dignity if we don't behave in a dignified fashion?" I believe was the formulation back in the day. (This was never a problem for white people, it should be noted, except in the relatively brief periods following the various waves of European immigration.)
Of course, the basic institutional white racism of the country didn't give a damn how fervently black folks argued this issue. It just went right along being racist for the sake of being racist.
Jason, you're bringing to light an argument that's been engaged for a while, and good for you for it, but the notion that white people will change if black people behave responsibly is belied by an awful lot of history.
And, anyway, apples and oranges.

friend of the friendless · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

Sirs, Madames,

I'm sure that Imus was only teasing -- like he and Phil Spector tease their hair.

YHS, etc

Boom_70 · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

"Whitlock just writes so that white people can feel better about themselves" / fenian bastard

shockey · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

per usual, shaun powell offers thought-provoking insight:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/ny-sppow125168074apr12,0,3616109.column?coll=ny-sports-columnists

Frank_Ridgeway · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

shockey said:

per usual, shaun powell offers thought-provoking insight:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/ny-sppow125168074apr12,0,3616109.column?coll=ny-sports-columnists
Click to expand...

I think Shaun is tremendous and always have. I edited him years ago when he was the virtually perfect beat writer, and a few months ago here, I selected him as one of my three columnists on our "Dream Team" that some of us were picking. But why didn't he call one of the players and ask them why they didn't do what he now suggests they should have done?

Fenian_Bastard · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

Boom_70 said:

"Whitlock just writes so that white people can feel better about themselves" / fenian bastard
Click to expand...

Naw. I figure it's just a handy by-product.

Fenian_Bastard · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Best Imus take I've read

OK, Shaun. Where'd Imus learn to call Gwen Ifill the "cleaning lady," or Bill Rhoden a "quota hire"? Where'd he learn to call Howard Kurtz, a "beanie-wearing jewboy"?
I don't think you can pin all this on Dr. Dre:
http://tompaine.com/Archive/scontent/4391.html

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