MLB 2014 season thread

amraeder · Oct 1, 2014

outofplace said:

amraeder said:

outofplace said:

amraeder said:

outofplace said:

amraeder said:

ryanb said:

Songbird said:

He also gave AL CYA to Kluber even though Felix won the ERA title by .30 and set a MLB record of consecutive starts of 7+ >2 ER.

Tried using defensive and park-friendly metrics.
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I saw that argument for Kluber of Hernandez. It read to me like somebody trying really hard to justify making the unconventional choice, but to each his own.
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His argument was basically "This is really, really, really, really close. But Kluber did an ever-ever-ever-so-slightly better job of controlling what he could control and the only reason his ERA was worse was because the Indians were horrible butchers in the field."
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Based on defensive metrics that even the most devoted stathead will admit are flawed and unreliable. So bullshit.
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Yeah. That's why he doesn't rely on just one. And point out that they're not even close. And ...if you don't let that use of numbers (and he also makes the point using FIP, which doesn't fall in the category you mentioned) you can take the temperature of the defense using errors (which actually would make his case much, much, much stronger than the numbers he quoted).
Seattle - second fewest errors.
Cleveland - Most errors. 5 more than the next worst team!

Or he could have used Fielding Percentage:
Seattle - Third (still pretty good!)
Cleveland - Still last.

(BTW, never knew that Cincinnati was such a good fielding team...too bad they couldn't hit).
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You do realize errors lead to unearned runs, not earned ones, correct?
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Yes. But they're also a good shorthand for shitty fielding. So to recap: Errors, Fielding Percentage, UZR, and DRS all indicate that Seattle was somewhere between an average and good defensive club. And all point to the fact that the Indians were an abomination unto the Lord in the field. I think we can look at those four stats and pretty safely draw the conclusion that Hernandez benefited from better fielding behind him than Kluber. And that it probably wasn't exactly a squeaker. It's not a leap of faith.
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Again, when the statheads stop saying the current defensive metrics fail to do the job, I'll start buying in. You are free to believe otherwise.

The argument in question still sounds like a load of crap and no, I do not think using errors as "shorthand for shitty fielding" makes it worthwhile if the guy is going to pass it off statistical analysis that somehow accounts for Hernandez having a significantly lower ERA than Kluber. There are reasons why errors have been dismissed in measuring a fielder's overall defensive ability.
Click to expand...

Sorry that the concept of using multiple metrics, which each have their limitations, to paint a comprehensive picture is a bit confusing. I really don't think I can explain it any clearer, a limitation on my part, I guess. (AND, btw, don't forget FIP, which is very different from UZR and DRS).

outofplace · Oct 1, 2014

amraeder said:

outofplace said:

amraeder said:

outofplace said:

amraeder said:

outofplace said:

amraeder said:

ryanb said:

Songbird said:

He also gave AL CYA to Kluber even though Felix won the ERA title by .30 and set a MLB record of consecutive starts of 7+ >2 ER.

Tried using defensive and park-friendly metrics.
Click to expand...

I saw that argument for Kluber of Hernandez. It read to me like somebody trying really hard to justify making the unconventional choice, but to each his own.
Click to expand...

His argument was basically "This is really, really, really, really close. But Kluber did an ever-ever-ever-so-slightly better job of controlling what he could control and the only reason his ERA was worse was because the Indians were horrible butchers in the field."
Click to expand...

Based on defensive metrics that even the most devoted stathead will admit are flawed and unreliable. So bullshit.
Click to expand...

Yeah. That's why he doesn't rely on just one. And point out that they're not even close. And ...if you don't let that use of numbers (and he also makes the point using FIP, which doesn't fall in the category you mentioned) you can take the temperature of the defense using errors (which actually would make his case much, much, much stronger than the numbers he quoted).
Seattle - second fewest errors.
Cleveland - Most errors. 5 more than the next worst team!

Or he could have used Fielding Percentage:
Seattle - Third (still pretty good!)
Cleveland - Still last.

(BTW, never knew that Cincinnati was such a good fielding team...too bad they couldn't hit).
Click to expand...

You do realize errors lead to unearned runs, not earned ones, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes. But they're also a good shorthand for shitty fielding. So to recap: Errors, Fielding Percentage, UZR, and DRS all indicate that Seattle was somewhere between an average and good defensive club. And all point to the fact that the Indians were an abomination unto the Lord in the field. I think we can look at those four stats and pretty safely draw the conclusion that Hernandez benefited from better fielding behind him than Kluber. And that it probably wasn't exactly a squeaker. It's not a leap of faith.
Click to expand...

Again, when the statheads stop saying the current defensive metrics fail to do the job, I'll start buying in. You are free to believe otherwise.

The argument in question still sounds like a load of crap and no, I do not think using errors as "shorthand for shitty fielding" makes it worthwhile if the guy is going to pass it off statistical analysis that somehow accounts for Hernandez having a significantly lower ERA than Kluber. There are reasons why errors have been dismissed in measuring a fielder's overall defensive ability.
Click to expand...

Sorry that the concept of using multiple metrics, which each have their limitations, to paint a comprehensive picture is a bit confusing. I really don't think I can explain it any clearer, a limitation on my part, I guess. (AND, btw, don't forget FIP, which is very different from UZR and DRS).
Click to expand...

Amreader, that is a very weak response. I understand your point just fine. The flaw is not in your explanation, it is in your data. I'm sorry you don't understand that.

HanSenSE · Oct 1, 2014

3_Octave_Fart said:

Krukow's humor is not my cup of tea but I respect his commitment to the franchise.
I imagine he and Kuiper are making a hell of a lot of money, for what they have done for the property.
This was a story about deep friendship. Every guy should have a pal like Kuiper.
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It's a teaming that I think could only work in Northern California and especially in the Bay area. They don't do Baseball 101 like so many broadcasters do. If the game's dull, they'll check out ships in the Bay, talk about fans, ect.

Imagining they're saying quite a bit about Crawford ... still.

jr/shotglass · Oct 1, 2014

HanSenSE said:

NBC had some of its talent call games off monitors during the Olympics. But like the story said, they've become so closely linked to the franchise, it could work. Krukow may be the only broadcaster who gives scouting reports on the plate ump's strike zone.
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Doesn't Vin do Dodgers home games only now?

3_Octave_Fart · Oct 1, 2014

Crawford's slam was the first by a shortstop in the post-season- ever.
Pretty fuking incredible stat.

HanSenSE · Oct 1, 2014

jr/shotglass said:

HanSenSE said:

NBC had some of its talent call games off monitors during the Olympics. But like the story said, they've become so closely linked to the franchise, it could work. Krukow may be the only broadcaster who gives scouting reports on the plate ump's strike zone.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Vin do Dodgers home games only now?
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Games vs. the NL West, home and away, plus interleague vs. the Angels. I suspect he'll be headed to St. Louis, though.

LongTimeListener · Oct 1, 2014

My totally unbiased view is that the Nats are in trouble.

This looks like 2012.

old_tony · Oct 1, 2014

I didn't expect tonight's game to top last night's game or even come close to that, but I didn't expect it to be such a complete dud. Time to catch up on tonight's shows in the DVR.

3_Octave_Fart · Oct 1, 2014

Nothing could top last night. It was one of the five greatest games Fart's ever seen.

old_tony · Oct 1, 2014

3_Octave_Fart said:

Nothing could top last night. It was one of the five greatest games Fart's ever seen.
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Yup. Tonight is all the way to the complete other end of the spectrum.

3_Octave_Fart · Oct 1, 2014

old_tony said:

3_Octave_Fart said:

Nothing could top last night. It was one of the five greatest games Fart's ever seen.
Click to expand...

Yup. Tonight is all the way to the complete other end of the spectrum.
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"This game didn’t vindicate Billy Beane or Dayton Moore. This game vindicated baseball."

http://grantland.com/features/2014-mlb-playoffs-kansas-city-royals-oakland-athletics-american-league-wild-card-classic/

I never felt the game needed vindication, with its tremendous wealth of superstar talent, but appreciate the sentiment.

Guy_Incognito · Oct 1, 2014

One of the lessons of this season seems to be that if you're willing to take a chance or be patient with former phenoms who disappoint or get hurt, they might eventually pay off.

Volquez
Arrietta
Hughes
Snider
Liriano

There are more I'm forgetting.

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MLB 2014 season thread

amraeder Well-Known Member

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HanSenSE Well-Known Member

LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

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MLB 2014 season thread

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HanSenSE Well-Known Member

LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

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