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MLB 2022: The Long and Winding Thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Starman, Mar 18, 2022.

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  1. UPChip

    UPChip Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the appeal of a Stephen Vogt or a Kurt Suzuki is that they are the salt of the earth guys, both in the lineup and particularly in the clubhouse. Guys like Vogt and Suzuki are special because not only did they make it but, even though there's clear evidence that they weren't particularly special, but they stayed. They swam upsteam against the breakdown of one's body that is inevitable when suiting up 140 times a year (and both of these guys were catchers) and they swam upstream against the constant flood of talent trying to take their job each spring. And they got to go out when they said so. The entirety of Vogt's career is, by BBref, worth 7.0 WAR, which is to say roughly Mike Trout's seventh-best season but not only did he get to live the dream, he got to do it for 10 years.

    In a way I miss the old 50-pound baseball encyclopedias because they were, to me, the "Lamb's Book of Life," to steal from Revelation. For all of us poor bastards who have stood in the outfield or swung a metal bat in Little League, these are the guys that made it, and unlike even the record books, you can't take that away.

    As for him, I assume we haven't seen the last of at least one of those guys because as an ex-catcher on good terms with his clubhouse, they were already expecting Vogt to be manager material sooner rather than later.
     
  2. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    If you assume Henderson stays at third, you only really have to find a second baseman if you want to live with Mateo at short.

    I wonder what Jose Abreu is going to want for a contract at his age

    pitching should be the major focus. If Rodriguez is back on track by spring training, they can build around him with some just above average arms and there’s plenty for them to pick from.
     
    Cosmo likes this.
  3. Octave

    Octave Well-Known Member

    UPChip, I used to lug that encyclopedia on family vacations. I still have it.
    It was one of the first things I bought with my high school job earnings.
    (Target snack bar.)
     
    Fred siegle and maumann like this.
  4. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    There is a tremendous amount of ground between what the Yankees do and having the second-lowest payroll in MLB. This is the time to move somewhere into the middle.
     
  5. Octave

    Octave Well-Known Member

    They are a nouveau moneyball team. Data-driven and data-run. Sometimes I think you do this on purpose, sometimes I don't.
     
  6. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I understand what they are. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
     
  7. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    Being from the Bay Area, I saw both of them at some point in their careers.

    Vogt "strapped it on" for the Giants and was a decent hitting lefty C for them. Not Yadier or Buster behind the dish, but not Mackey Sasser either.

    Suzuki started out with the A's as a light hitting C, then became a pretty decent 15-20 HR C with really soft hands and good rapport with the Ps and won a ring with the Nats.

    They should be celebrated, especially here in Oak given their roots.
     
    maumann and ChrisLong like this.
  8. Octave

    Octave Well-Known Member

    As the Nick Nolte burnout character says at the party in North Dallas Forty - "agreement doesn't enter into it."

    This is how they've chosen to operate their business (as have the Pittsburgh Pirates) on the eve of expected global recession.
     
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    The Pirates have been operating this way for decades. Please tell me you aren't stupid enough to believe their latest excuse.
     
  10. Octave

    Octave Well-Known Member

    I watched Syd Thrift raise the dead. It can be done again.
     
  11. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    Showalter's teams usually make the meteoric improvement in year 2.

    Screen Shot 2022-10-06 at 9.03.45 PM.png
     
    bigpern23 likes this.
  12. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    That was quite a confluence of events, including some fantastic lopsided trades in their favor and the development of one of the great players of all time. Even then, they never did get to the World Series, in part because they were bleeding talent due to financial constraints. This was a loaded team that had been to the NLCS two years in a row, but they let Bonilla leave as a free agent and traded a 20-game winner in his prime for prospects before the 1992 season. Bonds damn near carried that '92 team to the playoffs. Then Bonds and Doug Drabek left, too, and they didn't have a winning season for 20 years.

    When the Pirates finally broke that string and made the playoffs as a wild card in 2013, ownership's response was to cut payroll and raise ticket prices.

    This isn't some brilliant strategy. It is a penny-pinching owner who insists his baseball people put finances first at all times. Every team in MLB knows it, which is why you most likely won't see great trades like Tony Pena for Andy Van Slyke, Mike LaValliere, and Mike Dunne. Opposing teams know they don't have to offer fair value in trade as long as they take on salary.
     
    Octave likes this.
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