MLB HOF debate thread

don't you have some gay bashing to take care of?

 

It's a nothing stat, it's mathematical masturbation. But I guess you're right, better actually bother to care about the OPS of someone who hits 50 homers or bats .375 before judging whether they are any good.

 

Dooley, that's a red herring and you know it.

If a guy hits 50 homers in a season or bats .375, of course he has value. Great value. If a player is good enough at one facet of the game, it can make up for a lot of shortcomings. Go ahead, regale me with a list of all the .375 hitters in MLB.

OPS at least combines the two most important facets of hitting -- getting on base and hitting for power. Is it a perfect tool? No, and I never tried to pass it off as such. But I defy you to find somebody with an OPS of, say, 900, who isn't a productive offensive player. But you can damn sure find guys who hit an empty .300, either because they never walk or hit for no power. If you just look at, say home runs and RBI, you might get the idea that a guy like Joe Carter was a better offensive player than Dwight Evans.

If people think of OPS as a sabergeek kind of number, then imagine how apeshit they'd go over people multiplying OBP and slugging average.

You seem so in love with Tony Perez. OK, let's compare him with Jeff Bagwell. I'll happily take OPS off the table.

Perez batted .279, Bagwell .297. Advantage Bagwell. Is that because Bagwell hit in an easier era? Well, Perez hit 15 points above the league average during his career; Bagwell hit 30 points better than the league average during his career.

Perez had 379 homers, Bagwell 449. Advantage, Bagwell.

Perez drove in 1,652 runs, Bagwell 1,529. Advantage, Perez? Maybe, unless you want to take into account Perez playing in 627 more games (2,777) than Bagwell (2,150). Perez also hit in the middle of the Big Red Machine. Bagwell did it with the Astros, with many of his seasons in the Astrodome.

The best two measures of a hitter are how often he gets on base and how much power he has. Perez had a .341 on-base percentage, Bagwell .408. Is that because Bagwell is the beneficiary of an offensive-laden era? His on-base percentage was 71 points better than the league average during his career. Perez's on-base percentage was 10 points better than the league average during his career.

As for power, Perez slugged .463 -- 74 points better than the league average during his career.

Bagwell slugged .540 -- 120 points higher than the league average during his career.

No fancy stats here. No saberspeak.

 

But Perez was the feared hitter in a dynasty. Bagwell had a nice little non-title career. That's why sabermetrics doesn't get someone in the Hall.

 

but, but, dooley, he's actually heard MLB announcers talk about OPS on telecasts!!!

 

So being in the Hall of Fame is based on whether you are lucky enough to play for a team that wins a title? Thank you for playing Ted Williams and Ernie Banks. Pick up your party favors at the door.

Do you honestly believe that if the roles were reversed (Bagwell playing for Big Red Machine, Perez for 90s Astros) that the Reds would have won any fewer titles or that Perez would have carried Houston to a title?

 

naw, it's all about OPS ... just ask montezuma. he's heard about it while watching sunday night baseball.

 

I think that this above reaction is ridiculous.

Yes, once they get in, no one really remembers the path they took to get in.

But, most assuredly, some are borderline cases, as in any profession.

And they may need to wait.

 

Dude... don't lower yourself to take the "high schools coverage is for mental midgets" baiting that he is engaging in.

 

Perez wasn't as good as Bagwell. Ever.

Not even in wet dreams.

 

You are a moronic one-trick pony. You acted like OPS is some fucking science-fiction stat. All I said was that it was mainstream enough that they mention it on telecasts all the time. Is that information really that fucking hard for you to process, you fucktarded simpleton?

 

Simon, I know I shouldn't take his bait. I just get sick of his little act. At least, I hope it's an act, because the alternative ...