Most overrated baseball player of all time

On Gary Carter - I am with the majority here, I don't think he deserved to be in the Hall. The New York thing and playing on the '86 team helped him over the top (and he knew how to play to the media). As Bubbler mentioned, look at Ted Simmons' numbers. Hell, compare Carter to Lance Parrish, too (who was just as good defensively in the same era).

On Maz - Yes, I think defense should count to get in the Hall - although it is the most difficult to quantify as stats don't always tell the story. But PLEASE do not say hitting one home run to win a World Series should make him be considered for the Hall. What's next? Gene Larkin for his Game 7 game-winning hit? Bucky Dent? Bobby Thomson? Roger Maris for his one great season (or two, I guess) in an overall OK career? Please, stick to the career, not the isolated moment or season.

 

Lantaur, as an obvious support of Maz in the Hall, I do not believe that the '60 homer should have played any role other than as part of the case that he helped his team to two World Series rings, one as a star and one as a reserve.

Oh, and just for the record, a quote from SportsJournalists.com god Bill James:

"Mazeroski's defensive statistics are probably the best of any player in baseball history, at any position. Intuitively, that seems like a Hall of Famer."

 

That's simply not true. I've played baseball and softball. I played second base. You can't tell me it's not as difficult as playing short.

Again, a second baseman must cover more ground when a runner is being held close to first base. He/she is the one who covers first on bunts. He/she goes to second on the majority of steal attempts, considering there are more right-handed hitters than there are left-handed hitters. I acknowledge that results in a likelihood of more balls being hit to the left side of the infield but shortstops also have it easier in that they can gun the ball across the field to first base and often don't have to pivot their bodies before making the throw. This is something a second baseman must be able to do regularly and quickly, along with varying their throws to either second or first, depending on their position in relation to whatever bag they're throwing to.

Check out this 2000 interview with former U.S. national softball team captain Dot Richardson, perhaps the best shortstop in the history of women's softball. She shifted to second base prior to the 2000 Olympics because, in her words, "an athlete I have the ability to do it. Crystl Bustos, who is now at short, does not have the make-up of a second baseman. I am much shorter and am agile and quick."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2000/softball/news/2000/09/16/10_questions_dot_richardson/

1. What has it been like moving from shortstop to second base?

It was very difficult in the beginning, because the two positions are very opposite from each other. Anyone who understands the two positions in baseball and softball understands that at second it is more difficult, because you are actually moving in the opposite direction from a lot of balls.


If you haven't heard of Dot Richardson, she's also an orthopedic surgeon who is the vice-chair of the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports, and the medical director of the National Training Center in Clermont, Florida. So I think she has the credibility to be able to speak with some authority on the matter.

 

So one mentioned Maz's eight gold gloves. Here's a list of players with more:

pitcher
Jim Kaat 16
Greg Maddux 15
Bob Gibson 9

catcher
Ivan Rodriguez 11
Johnny Bench 10

first base
Keith Hernandez 10
Don Mattingly 9

second base
Roberto Alomar 10
Ryne Sandberg 9

Third base
Brooks Robinson 16
Mike Schmidt 10

Shortstop
Ozzie Smith 13
Omar Vizquel 10
Luis Aparicio 9

Outfield
Roberto Clemente 12
Willie Mays 12
Ken Griffey 10
Al Kaline 10

Players with as many as Maz include Frank White (2B), Paul Blair (OF), George Scott (1b) and Bobby Schantz (P). None are Hall of Famers in my book.

The Gold Glove started in 1957, Maz's career was 56-72 so even giving him the extra Gold Glove, he's still well short of many other players.

Source: baseball-reference.com

 

This isn't about softball, Dot F. Richardson or your personal experiences trying to play either baseball or softball.

I ask the question again: List the second basemen who moved to shortstop when they got older and needed a lesser challenge as they started to slow down.

 

Only guy I can think of is Rafael Furcal, but he went from second to short in the minors. I think Michael Young might have made the change, too.

 

Shea Hillenbrand

 

I disagree. Gary Carter was among the top players in his position for a lot of years. He hit over 300 home runs before the Steroid Era, and there were few catchers who did that before him. Yogi, Campanella, and Bench are the only ones who come immediately to mind. He was an excellent defensive player. He was overshadowed because he played in the same era as Johnny Bench and, while he wasn't as good as Bench, Gary Carter is a deserving Hall of Famer. He is also an excellent example of why there is a 15-year eligibility. Carter's totals might not have looked overwhelming in the immediate years after his retirement, but it was impressive when you consider that no capable defensive catcher put up his kind of numbers.

 

If Bill Mazeroski wore Yankee pinstripes he would have been a first ballot HOF'er.

 

I hadn't seen this earlier, but I think 99 percent of major league infielders would tell you shortstop is the more difficult position to play because it generally involves much more difficult throws and (although Dot Richardson apparently hasn't figured it out) some of them are also going to the right -- away from first base. The second baseman has a more difficult double-play in terms of the pivot and having your back turned to the runner, but that's about it.

 

Gold, you know your baseball, but Gary Carter doesn't belomg in the HOF. This isn't the all-star game where you have to bring a Mark Loretta or Paul LoDuca because everyone else is worse. The catchers in his era weren't good enough. He was one of a few good ones (Fisk, Parrish, Gedman, Simmons) but not all that great, and not an HOFer.

 

Excellent point.

While he wasn't a first-ballot HOF'er, see Rizzuto, Phil, for reference.

If Rizzuto played in Pittsburgh, he wouldn't sniff Cooperstown without a ticket.