Most overrated baseball player of all time

Add Wood and Prior to that list of overrated Cubs -- or soon-to-be ex-Cubs.

 

That's Shantz, and he at least has an MVP award on his shelf.

 

Love how you fail to note the Vets Committee was blown up after your boyhood idol was enshrined.

And one more thing you, of course, fail to note: The highest pct your boyhood idol Maz ever received in the HOF voting was 42 pct, and that was in his final year on the ballot. In his first 13 years on the ballot, he failed to exceed 30 pct. So apparently, in your fanboy logic, at least 43 pct of the electorate was "fallible" when it came to voting for your favorite player.

Edit: Here's the chart from the Hall of Fame website: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/history/hof_voting/alpha/M.htm It took him five years to get into double digits! FIVE YEARS!!! That means more than 65 percent of the electorate was "fallible" when it came to voting for your favorite player for five years!! What are the odds!!!

And that means half of the electorate had to be wrong about Maz for 13 years! Wow, that's an awfully large leap, assuming that half of a large voting body is COMPLETELY wrong about a player's candidacy!

But of course, he deserves to be in the HOF because he won a lot of Gold Gloves. I guess you'lll be all over Frank White soon enough, right?

Twobit: Always clueless. About EVERYTHING.

 

Maz is in the Hall of Fame for one reason, and it ain't because of his Gold Gloves: He hit one big home run against the Yankees.

If we're going by pure talent, Frank White and Maz were nearly equal, and the stats back it up. Throw in the fact that White played on artificial turf, and what he did with the glove is that more impressive. Plus, don't forget Gold Glove No. 9 that actually went to Harold Reynolds in 1988 I believe. White made four errors. Reynolds made 18.

If Maz is a HOFer (which he shouldn't be), then so should Frank White.

 

If Frank White should be in the Hall, then Harold Reynolds should be in the Hall.

 

Catching up on a few of the posts:
--I notice a few SABR adherents talking about Mazeroski supposedly being the greatest defensive player of all time. That is a disingenous peg to hang your hat on, given that pretty much everywhere else, other than that one statement, James says that defense is overrated or not easily quantifiable.
--The stat about the double plays: Could easily be an argument for putting Gene Alley into the Hall of Fame.
--You can't ignore the past in deciding who should be in the Hall of Fame. All the same, I don't think Chick Hafey is being used as anyone's baseline in a Hall of Fame debate. Just as I hope no one will be using Eckersley or Mazeroski as a baseline.
--Related to the above: So are we to set up a quota system, under which we say "the top player at each position in every 20-year interval has to make the Hall of Fame,"
--Per my earlier point, making the Hall of Fame essentially on defense should be a rarity, reserved for shortstops, center fielders and third basemen. So Jim Kaat doesn't make it, and Keith Hernandez doesn't make it. And the defensive criteria should be more based on transcendent plays made on a consistent basis (Ozzie Smith, Luis Aparicio, Brooks Robinson) than on ambivalent stats like chances, and fielding percentage, which can often be more indicative of someone having little range rather than indicative of fielding greatness.
--Related to the above: A shortstop doesn't have to be a great fielder to make the Hall. But a great-fielding shortstop should have an easier time making the Hall than a great-fielding second baseman. "The greatest-fielding second baseman of all-time," given the relative ease of the position, holds about the same gravitas as "The greatest middle reliever of all time"

 

Rizzuto proves this wrong. Played in NY, was NY, never sniffed the HOF from the voters. Backed his way in, doesn't belong there either, and I'm a Yankee fan who loved him, White & Messer growing up, but White has a better case than Rizzuto or Maz.

 

OK, pull Reese too.

 

Rizzuto and Reese were both Veterans Committee choices. Those should all be marked with asterisks because they're influenced by cronyism ("He was a hell of a guy"), sentiment ("Let's get him in while he's still alive") and deal-making ("You vote for my undeserving guy this year and I'l vote for your undeserving guy next year.")

Mazeroski was the final straw (former Pittsburgh GM Joe Brown did some serious manipulating in a year when Ted Williams was not there to voice his usual dissent) and the Vets Committee was abolished.

 

Omar Moreno

The end