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Moyers On PBS

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Fenian_Bastard, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. RokSki

    RokSki New Member

    F'ing NY Times, playing 'cover our @ss':

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20070425/cm_huffpost/046798&printer=1;_ylt=Al_81ZXf.vWFLSyNALnCfRce6sgF
     
  2. Irony being elusive, Chris goes for erudition. Let's unpack, shall we?
    I don't recall ever saying things would be better now. I don't know that they will. History tells me that people like Russert don't learn. The NYT has yet to fully acknowledge its role and, as Rok has pointed out, is still covering its own keister. But, no matter.
    The Einstein quote doesn't apply if people aren't doing the same things. And they're not.
    I thought the case for this war was primarily bullshit and wishful thinking at the time. I thought that because I read the KR guys, and Pincus, and listened to the BBC, and to el Baradei, and Blix, and I remembered the PNAC letter to Clinton, and because I followed the various neocon publications and speeches over the past 16 years, and knew that there were a lot of people who were slavering for a war in Iraq long before 9/11. So when the NYT and the WaPo, and Russert, and Beinart kept making the case, I was skeptical. That hasn't changed simply because the people I listened to happened to be more right than the cheerleaders like Frum and Victor Davis Chickenhawk, or enablers like Timmy and Peter.
    Now, there's some increased skepticism and oversight, some of it coming from the mainstream media, but almost none of it coming from the people who looked like jackasses in the Moyers show. I don't have any illusions that we're entering generally an age of brave journalism. And, anyway, the show was about bad journalism in 2002-2003 that enabled a criminally stupid war.
    On the other hand, you dazzled Boom. That's something, I guess.
     
  3. Simon_Cowbell

    Simon_Cowbell Active Member

    Why would anyone pass a memo with THAT false story.

    If he, in fact, did have bad ratings, you don't need to make up a story to shitcan someone.
     
  4. JayFarrar

    JayFarrar Well-Known Member

    I thought the conventional wisdom on Donahue at the time was that he had trouble booking because no one wanted to look unpatriotic by appearing on his show.
     
  5. He didn't get great ratings because nobody on MSNBC ever has.
    He got let go because he was the antiwar guy who didn't get great ratings.
     
  6. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member

    Ski: As I've repeatedly referenced, much of NYT's public attitude goes back to Bill Keller's lengthy mental romance with Wolfowitz. They've regained a measure of control of the stick since the Scooter show, and Katrina, but the horse long ago left the barn, in terms of the big picture.
     
  7. But Fenian - you are the Wiley Coyote super genius of sports journalists. Of course you could never be fooled.

    The question, however, remains - how was it that the vast majority of media outlets and reporters were so easily or willfully hoodwinked? And if they were so easily fooled before - what makes anyone think they won't be fooled again? Why would anyone give credence to anything the NYT (and by extension - the Boston Globe), WaPo or any of the media mentioned in the Moyers show a further benefit of the doubt? Take a couple of mea cupla's and trust me in the morning? Is that the prescription here?
     
  8. Back to irony.
    Still bad at it.
    A lot of people -- most of the chickenhawk war cheerleaders to whom you plighted your troth, for example - believed their own bullshit. A lot of people chose to believe what was spoonfed to them by the people who believed their own bullshit. A lot of people trusted their government -- a very bad move with the people running the government now, as we all have learned to our horror. And a lot of people were lazy courtiers to power. How they got fooled was amply documented in the Moyers special.
    How can we trust them now? Well, I can see if you're invested in the childlike notion of a monolithic MSM that moves with one mind that this might sound at first like a question of original insight. However, for those of us who don't share this delightfully juvenile idea, the answer is I don't trust the people described above. I don't trust Michael Gordon and/or Judy Miller, for example, or Russert, or Beinart, on this issue. Critical thinking is important these days.
     
  9. JackS

    JackS Member

    You're probably right. I was simply giving Moyers the benefit of the doubt that the memo existed in my initial post that you cite above.

    The material in my subsequent posts lead me to believe the existence of that memo ranks right up there with Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. A no-name blog first reported it; a few sucker mainstream sources picked up on it; NBC denied it (saying his canning was due to ratings); and Donahue admits he never saw it.

    That's some pretty shi**y evidence, right there.
     
  10. JackS

    JackS Member

     
  11. Jack --
    You can't argue on the face of it that his antiwar posture didn't have something to do with it, especially given the direction MSNBC went in the aftermath.
     
  12. JackS

    JackS Member

    The *most* I will admit is that his antiwar stance didn't help him (mainly because it hurt him in the ratings). But the guy was dead meat regardless. He's lucky he even lasted seven months. When they moved him to the live studio audience in NYC after four months, desperation had long set in. The big investment was expected to pay off quickly, and it didn't even come close.
     
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