NBA '08 Playoff Thread

Thanks for the permission to like the team I grew up watching be the best team all season and be in position to win a championship. It's much appreciated.

And one last time, I've never said that "championships!" is the end all and be all. My initial point was that Kobe can't be called as good or better than Jordan yet. You agree with that, yet decided to jump all over my saying that we can revisit the topic when he gets three more titles. I'll concede that he doesn't need to get seven to be considered better (and if he gets seven he's not automatically better). All I was saying is that with all things being equal, championships is a fair criteria to use as one tie-breaker.

I'll let you have the last word. I'm over it. I need to go get my Celtics PJs on and get ready for the game.

 

It was in my last couple posts, I suppose. Never a good call to accuse someone in a discussion of being condescending, unless you want to see what condescending really looks like. Unwise to throw around words without pondering their meaning.

Boobie: There is no reason to mention Kobe in the same breath as Jordan. There is no reason to mention ANYONE in the same breath as Jordan. And there never will be. It's folly to even try. It's a complete non-starter, and always has been. Which is why I mentioned the schlubs who the media previously anointed as "Next Jordan!"

Still, since your original point was about how the conversation can start in three championships, my question about who you deemed better: Magic or Bird? was a valid one. Your honest answer about having been too young to see them play and having a Boston bias was appreciated. If you can argue my point, based on that, that you are eager to love this group of Celtics because you've never seen a truly great Celtics team, then have at it.

Still, as long as we seek honesty: Despite your last post, you have repeatedly posted in a manner indicating that you feel that, yes, NBA championships are the final arbiter of which player is better. I happen to disagree.

Can a championship add the final note to a player's career? How many veteran players have their money and seek "a trade to a contender"? A lot. But Player A being lucky enough to have a great coach and a couple of great teammates does not necessarily make him better than Player B.

Also: looking back in this thread, bostonbread deserves a shoutout for mentioning that Leon Powe was a player to watch in the postseason. Fanboy rantings getting lucky, or sage NBA analysis? You be the judge.

 

I'm actually curious, who do you think is better Magic or Bird? And why?

 

If you want to run and have an unstoppable matchup at point guard, Magic is your man. He was the more versatile player, blessed with size and skill, along with great vision.

If you want a player who never stopped working on his game and makes the most of what he has, Bird is your man. He was a very good passer from the three, and what he may have lacked in raw athleticism, he had in court smarts, savvy, and frankly, the ability to run his mouth from the opening tip, and get into his opponent's head. Much like Jordan.

Hell, I'm a Lakers fan who grew up watching both of them. When I was a kid, my preference was clear.

But now, I can't with a straight face sell that Magic is better. Or that Bird is better. Been watching the DVDs of Lakers history (to salve the wound of these Finals), and the game from 1985 is absolutely breathtaking, in style of play, in the sheer skill both guys brought. I said before that titles also come from great players having great teammates and coaches. I think it's a wash on teammates, though the Lakers were more athletic. Boston's style didn't call for a bunch of running. But it is true that none of Boston's three 1980s title teams had a coach as good as Pat Riley.

I know that's a copout, but if I put together an all-time starting five from players in my lifetime, Magic would be at the point, with Bird at the three.

(Jordan at the two, Barkley at power forward, Olajuwon at center).

 

Larry Bird. He was in Blue Chips.

 

I find it mildly amusing that the trailer for Pineapple Express that played during the NBA Finals had all the references to weed removed.

If only the NBA could do that.

Oh, that's not true. The Title of the film would be xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx

That's not going to get us a ride, man.

 

You would put Olajuwon above Shaq or Tim Duncan or Kareem? You would put Barkley over Karl Malone?

Not saying I disagree with you. Just curious about your reasoning.

 

Kareem was old by the time I saw him. Olajuwon beat Shaq the one time they played when it mattered. I would definitely say Hakeem is the best center of the last 25 years.

And I would rather have Barkley on my team than Malone any day. He was a better overall player who brought more to the table.

 

The Captain was excellent, and the league's all-time leading scorer. He managed to stay effective for most of his career.

Olajuwon, in playoff matchups with all players in their prime, pimp-slapped Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing. He was among the greats for his entire career. I consider Duncan a power forward.

Barkley . . . again, aside from actually hitting the gym in the offseason, he worked his ass off to lift his team to wins. He didn't make a habit of disappearing on the big stage, which makes him superior to Malone. As for putting him above a Duncan, hey, it's my team. And I want a bruiser at the power forward position.

I'd love to know who your top guys are and why, suburbia.

 

Man you guys are young. Give the me the Hall of Famers who predate this debate and my team kicks your team's ass every night. No, only 7 of 10.
I'm going to bed now. Whether they win tonight or not, the Lakers have convinced me they suck in this series.

 

Me and you, gee.

 

I agree on Magic, Jordan, Bird and Olajuwon. If you consider Duncan a power forward, I take Duncan because he went to the finals four times while Barkley only went once and Malone only twice. Note that I didn't mention championships won - I know Duncan didn't have to go through Jordan's Bulls. But Duncan got to the finals more than Barkley and Malone combined.