NBA '08 Playoff Thread

i think lou has to enter the top 5 discussion ... doesn't he?

 

Oh my God -- I don't know how in the world I could have possibly forgot Lou (wasn't it actually Lew) -- but yes, he is clearly in that discussion.

Like I said, I whipped up this list as a good starting point.

 

ha. lou.

(the guy who played the hulk was a helluva baller from what i hear, though.)

 

OK, I have given this a decent amount of though and probably too much of my time, but here goes.

How I will rank players better than Kobe, on par with and lesser than Kobe will be if I had a choice, looking back at their careers with 20/20 vision, would I trade a 23-year-old XXXX XXXXX player for a 23-year-old Kobe? If I pull the trigger without hesitation, then I consider them better than Kobe.

If I am unsure of the trade, then they are on par with Kobe.

If I keep Kobe, then they are a lesser player than Kobe.

God help me, I sound like Bill Simmons.

I would trade Kobe to have the following players in a second.

Wilt
Jordan
Magic
Russell
Oscar
Kareem
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Isiah (at the end of the game I would so rather have Zeke than Kobe)
Iverson (if their situations were juxtaposed, how would we remember Iverson?)
Mikan
Ewing
Cousy
Duncan
Walt Frazier
David Robinson

That's 17

The following players, I would probably trade Kobe for, but it would take a bit of thought.
John Stockton
Steve Nash
West (they would have won a ton if not for a great Celtics squad)
Baylor (see above)
Pettit (see above)

Five more puts us at 22.

The following players are probably break even trades.
Dr. J (my favorite player as a kid, but as an adult I see that he has problems dribbling and shooting from the outside)
Barkley
Elvin Hayes
Wes Unceld
Garnett
Kevin McHale
Moses Malone

So Kobe could be as deep as 30 as early as 22 on the list.

These players I would keep Kobe over.
Tiny Archibald
Billups
Peral Monroe
Dennis Johnson
George Gervin (Kobe plays better D)
Nique (ditto)
Maravich (ditto)
David Thompson (ditto, drugs)
Paul Pierce (stock has risen a lot in the past month)
Karl Malone (Stockton was better, IMHO)
Pippen
Grant Hill

Young guns but too soon...
LeBron
Wade
Howard
Chris Paul

 

I didn't get a chance to post on Tuesday night, but better late than never: Congrats to Boobie and Bostonbred and all the other C's fans on the board.

Moving on to the eternal question that's always asked two days after a final ends -- can they do it next year? If not, then who?

 

I think its almost impossible to compare the players in the Wilt and Russell era to now. Today's game is completely different. I believe Wilt was the only 7 footer in the whole league back then. I mean he was droppin' 50 points a game for god sakes . There's no chance in hell he does that today.

 

Disagree on Iverson but would add to your list of who I would trade Kobe for :

Drexler
English
Reed
Cowens
Havlcek
Worthy
Walter Davis
Rick Barry
Nate Thurmond

 

and how in the fuck do you know that? how many times did you watch wilt play?

 

Fuckity, fuck, fuck, fuck.

How did I leave off Havlicek? I even remember writing his name down.

I would trade Kobe for him in a second.

 

James Worthy? Walter Davis? Clyde Drexler? Wow, I lauged really hard at that list.
I completely disagree with that list and the previous one. My the top 5 players of all time(as of now):
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Kobe
4. Bird
5. Magic

You're view on Kobe is very flawed. You compared him to Dennis Johnson, Steve Nash, John Stockton, and Grant Hill for god sakes. In case you haven't heard, Kobe isn't a good player. He's a great player. You ask any NBA player who the best player in the league is, they'll tell you its Kobe(watch ESNEWS on youtube. They have this clip where they ask multiple NBA players who the best player in the league is and they all said Kobe without hesitation). When you have that much respect by your peers, there's no fucking way you get compared by those players. He's arguably the greatest offensive player of all time. He can drive with ease, he can shoot the 3 from the locker room, great court vision and can make excellent passes, and he's one of the most clutch players in NBA history. He's also one of the best defenders in the whole game. He's been on the All Defensive 1st team 6 times(he's been on the second team twice). He's been on the All-NBA 1st team 6 times as well. Oh yeah, he's a 3 time champion as well. But even after all that, the thing that seperates him is the respect he has from other NBA players. Everyone in the league knows who the best player in the game is. That dosn't happen often.


EDIT:
Here are a couple of quotes from Larry Bird on Kobe.

Pacers president Larry Bird said Bryant's talent and star power are undeniable, and he understands the Lakers' hesitance to trade him.
"I always thought Kobe, when Shaq started going down a little bit, was the best player in the league," Bird said. "It's hard to trade the best player in the league. I'm sure the Lakers are doing everything they can to try and mend fences..

Indiana Pacers president and NBA legend Larry Bird was on the Dan Patrick Show this morning, and the subject of clutch performers came up. Patrick asked Larry Legend if Kobe's ability to hit big shots rivaled Michael Jordan. Bird responded with this:
"I think Kobe is the best player in our league and I think he's been the best player for a long time, not to take anything away from anybody else. You know, somebody told me the other day that [Kobe] hasn't won an MVP trophy, and it sort of made me feel like I want to go throw mine away, so that's how much respect I have for the guy."

 

Why did you just post the same thing twice?

 

Chuck - still a fuckin a -hole I see. You laughed hard huh. Besides Kobe you have really been able to watch how many players on these various lists - 4-5 tops?