NBA '08 Playoff Thread

No, actually my opinion of him as a player has increased this season.

Angola is right, Kobe has no idea how to make the players around him better.

Almost every player who is on my list is a great player and a great teammate. The last two words are very important.

 

Though Jordan was a terrible teammate if you believe the stories, he was just so damn good it didn't matter.

 

Definitely a lot of thought put into this, but well thought out? Well...

On the list of guys you'd definitely trade him for, I agree with them except for Isiah, Iverson, Mikan, Ewing, Cousy, Duncan, Frazier, and Robinson.

I would take Bird - and Magic - but again, I don't think it's that outrageous to contemplate taking Kobe over, say, Bird. Bird won three titles and played with two Hall of Famers, and, if you listen to a lot of Celtic fans, DJ was a hall of famer as well so that means Bird was playing with three of them. Kobe's titles are denigrated because he won them with Shaq. That's one Hall of Famer. The third-best player on those teams was usually either Derek Fisher or Robert Horry! Yet somehow those teams three-peated (I know, I know, inferior competition, etc., etc., compared to the 1980s when the No. 1 seeds were often playing teams under .500.) Compare that to the Chief being the third-best on the Celts. Again, I would take Bird at this point, but it's not sacrilegeous to think differently, and in two or three years, it might be a pretty easy choice.

As for Isiah definitely being someone you'd take over Kobe at the end of games? Again, I have to wonder if you've watched many games in Kobe's career. There's literally like a 6 minute youtube video that's just Kobe's game-winners, and that doesn't include the countless go-ahead jumpers with 30 seconds left, or the tying jumpers with 20 seconds left, etc. Just in these last playoffs, think about Game 4 of the Nuggets series, Games 1 and 5 in the Spurs, and the third game of the Celtics series, where Kobe dominated the final minutes. On those lakers title teams, yeah, Shaq was the dominant guy, but mostly for three quarters. The fourth quarter was Kobe's. They would often go out of their way to not give Shaq the ball in the final minutes (which to me lowers Shaq on the all-time list as well. How many other top guys were gameplanned out of their team's offense in the final two minutes?) And the ball wasn't in the hands of Rick Fox. Isiah was great in the clutch, but Kobe's fourth quarter dominance is about as good as there has been in a long, long time.

On the probably list, the only one I'd probably agree with is West. Stockton, Nash? Put Kobe on the Suns at the start of this season, with Amare, Marion, Barbarosa, etc. Is that a team that's losing in the first round of the playoffs? Kobe's getting ripped on now because he came up short in the finals even though he's the regular season MVP. Nash was the two-time MVP who never even made the finals. He's played with multiple all-stars for about the last seven years, dating back to Dallas, yet has no Finals appearances to show for it.

On the break even list, I'd probably go along with Moses, but that's about it. Dr. J has troubles dribbling and shooting...so what would be his advantage on Kobe, other than the one-handed swooping dunks he could throw down on the likes of Michael Cooper?

That last list, of guys you wouldn't trade Kobe for...Chauncey Billups? How did he get on there? Seeing him - and Grant Hill - on there is like an SAT question of "which one of these doesn't belong here."

Kobe's being dropped notches because of his Finals performance? What about Magic's 1984 disaster, or Bird's lackluster Finals in 1985 (after an MVP season too! The horror!). Do we hold those against them? I mean you have David Robinson ahead of Kobe. If you're holding MVP seasons against people, Robinson's destruction at the hands of Hakeem in 1995 is the poster child. And that was in the conference finals.

I stand corrected, it's an eight-minute video. And this is obviously not every one, as there are half a dozen I can think of off the top of my head that aren't on here.

 

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

 

I'll be leaving now.

 

thank you, paul. i'll be right behind.

 

he played some uninspiring basketball in the finals for somebody who will go down as a top 10 player. i havent looked at stats of the series or anything, but each of the big three completely outplayed him on both ends and appeared like they wanted it more. he was on the bench in critical moments of games and failed to make his teammates better when he wasn't hitting shots. he made only one play that people will remember at all and that was on the defensive end.

 

Leave if you must but know that Walter Davis in his first 5 seasons before he got on the blow and wrecked his knee was a great player. Have a look at his stats.

BTW I would also add a healthy Bernard King to that list of players I would trade Kobe for.

 

Walter Davis was definitely a better college player than Kobe.

Bostonbred, the point is that all of the greats had bad series. Again, look at Magic's meltdown in 1984, or Bird's terrible struggles in 1985. Even Jordan...shot only 42 percent in the 1996 Finals (obviously they won, so it's not exactly comparable).

God, now Bernard King? Alex English? Waiting for Kiki Vandeweghe and Adrian Dantley to be added to the list of "Guys I'd certainly trade Kobe for."

 

so solid.

 

No idea how to make his teammates better? Have you watched the Lakers the past 3 reasons? Hell forget about the past 3 seasons, lets focus on this season. Would this team be in the playoffs without Kobe? Heeeeeeeell no. With him, they're in the finals. What more do you want?

 

With him, their what in the finals?

(Oh, c'mon. If I hadn't...)