NBA Playoff Thread

Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan .. hell, LeBron had had a hell of a lot more playoff success than Dirk, so he should be up there too. Larry Bird, Magic, yes, Wade. Franchise players are few and far between.

 

Death, taxes and the Lakers' second unit blowing a lead in the first six minutes of the fourth quarter.

 

I have a feeling this will be a moot point once the season is over, but LeBron has only made it past the second round twice. The year they went to the finals and last season's loss to Orlando in the conference finals. Dirk's first six seasons in the playoffs were similar to LeBron's, with the exception of Dallas only making it to the WCF versus LeBron's trip to the finals.

 

We need to define our teams. Nowitzki is a perennial All-Star whose teams have yet to win a title. There are many guys in the Hall of Fame who fall into that category. Was George Gervin a franchise player? People sure as hell thought so in the '70s. Earl Monroe had a WORSE record than Dirk in the playoffs until the idiot Bullets traded him to the Knicks, who'd already won a title. There is no universe where Monroe wasn't a franchise player.
Dirk's not as good as Larry Bird or Magic Johnson. Who the fuck was and/or is?

 

This is the point I was trying to get to. Sure, Dirk's not an all-time legend, but he's a lock for the HOF and has had a hell of a run. Karl Malone never won a title and lost in the first round eight times. The guy is the #2 all time scorer in NBA history and won two MVP awards. I can't believe someone would argue he wasn't a guy to build your franchise around. To define franchise guy to only include "players that carry a team to an NBA title" is silly. That seems to be the argument, though.

 

Charles Barkley said that Nowitzki was getting the same criticism he, Barkley, got because he never won a title, that it wasn't fair, and that it was inevitable and inescapable. Sometimes, when he drops the clown act, Barkley provides insight.

 

LeBron's had more playoff success than Dirk?

Not to mention, for all of LeBron's glory, he's beaten one team in the playoffs that won 50 games. Detroit in 2007. The next best is the Hawks last year, 47. Otherwise it's:

Washington in 2006. Won 42 games.
- Washington in 2007. Won 41 games.
- New Jersey in 2007. Won 41 games.
- Detroit in 2007. Won 53 games.
- Washington in 2008. Won 43 games.
- Detroit in 2009. Won 39 games.
-Chicago in 2010. Won 41 games.

Blech. An overwhelming resume.

 

LeBron James will add to that resume soon enough . . . his teammates aren't as good as people think they are, but the title is theirs to lose, once again.

I define franchise player as a dude who will lift a team, just by his presence, to being better than they have been. A franchise-CHANGER. A title is not necessary. Guys in this category who have not won titles:

- Barkley for Phoenix in the early 1990s
- Kidd with the Nets in the early part of this decade (should have been MVP)
- Nash with the Suns for the last five years
- Some would put Dirk in this category for the last decade. That franchise was in oblivion before his arrival. Is it so bad that his ultimate ceiling was a Finals meltdown? Ask Mavericks fans in the 1990s if they would like a losing Finals appearance.

(Yes, I waffled on Dirk. Ray Allen is still not a franchise player).

 

I hesitated to mention Ray Allen. I just threw him in because I was mentioning the other guys in Boston.

Although, Ray Allen's playoff resume is pretty damn similar to the resumes of Pierce and KG prior to the three being united on the same team.

 

Ray Allen is no Hall-of-Famer in my book of basketball greatness.
Just my take, but lots have been as good as Ray and are not in the Hall.

Also, nice to see Utah stand up and make a statement that they intend to battle the Lakers.
Interested to see how the Spurs/Suns starts off late tomorrow night.

 

Normally, I'd say Ray Allen wouldn't make the HOF, but I think winning a title for the Boston Celtics will likely push him over the edge and into the HOF. I would be interested to see who you say has been as good as Ray but not made the HOF.

This website has a pretty interesting statistical predictor of likely HOFers:

http://basketballreference.com/leaders/leadershof.htm

From a purely statistical perspective, by the time Ray retires, he will be the all time leader in 3 point field goals made, top 20-25 in career points scored, and top 5-10 in career FT%. Again, if I had to guess, the title in Boston will put Ray in the HOF. Additionally, Ray has the "good guy" image that would likely help with voters.

 

It'll at least get his number retired in Boston.