NBA Playoffs Thread

Shockey, while I agree with you, what jumps at me on this post is this figure: "26." Jordan didn't win his first title until he was 28.

When Jordan was 26, I remember questioning whether he'd ever get over the hump because he was a gunner and gunners put up numbers, but don't win championships. You needed more team-oriented guys like Bird and Magic (of course, Isiah Thomas was in the middle of a championship run, so I guess you didn't HAVE to be a great teammate, ha). Eventually Jordan bought into Phil Jackson's system, became a more team-oriented superstar, and won titles at ages 28, 29, 30 and then again at 33, 34 and 35.

I'm not saying that James will win six titles or even one. But I am saying that even as some dismiss him, he has a lot of basketball still in front of him. And, in an apples-to-apples comparison, James has accomplished more as an NBA player at his age than Jordan had achieved at the same age (though with fewer years in the league). At this age, Jordan had one MVP, James has two. At this age, Jordan had yet to reach the NBA Finals, James has been twice. Of course, part of Jordan's legacy is he never lost in the finals, which adds to the perception of his invincibility. But, it's worth noting, he wasn't good enough to get a team to the finals when he was James' age and James was able to do it twice. You may say "well, he didn't have Pippen yet," but who was James' Pippen in Cleveland?

Now, those are just cold, hard facts. I'm not suggesting that, at the end of the day, James will have a career comparable to Jordan's. I'm just saying that it's all still there in front of him and in no way is his legacy defined already and, despite what just happened, when you take a step back and look at the big picture, what he's done up to this point is still quite remarkable.

 

His back might have finally given out from having to carry LeBron's ass around for the last six games.

 

Shockey calling me a fanboi of Lebron James but if it helps you sleep better to dismiss everyone who isn't running around saying a 26-year old player just entering the prime of his career is a bust because he hasn't won a title as a fanboi, so be it.

Lebron James isn't Michale Jordan and never will be and may not be close.

But his career is nowhere close to being over and it wouldn't shock me if the Heat roll over the league for the next few years.

James is not my favorite player nor is he in the discussion of my favorite player - I just get tired of the ridiculous over-the-top nonsensical criticisms of a guy who is pretty damn good at what he does.

 

There isn't a human alive that doesn't require them, actually.

What was the line from 9 months ago? "Well . . . LeBron may win six titles, but they will be cheapened because he did it the easy way!"

It was a rationalization. You saw something potentially disagreeable on the horizon . . . and had to rationalize it so it would be digestible.

Nope. There are only two choices. Jump on the piling on bandwagon . . . or be a fanboi. No room for anything in between.

 

Did you care to comment on his postgame quotes last night regarding how people have to go back to their lives, and he's going to continue doing what he's doing?

 

my point on that post, in response to someone suggesting the line of questioning after the game sounded like they came from fans and somehow goaded james into awful answers, was that we're not talking about a naive, inexperienced kid unable to handle media scrutiny. that james is 26 with eight years of professional scrutiny on top of all his schoolboy scrutiny.

i have no idea how many titles lebron will end up with. as of now, it's none, but i suspect he'll have a few before his work is done. eight years with no title is no shame. but for fanbois to say he was somehow goaded into his shameful answers after the game was nonsensical defense for a 26-year-old MAN with eight years professional experience.

 

I was referring to things he either did or said that allegedly contributed to fans being negative toward him during the season.

What he said after the Finals does not qualify.

But since you asked . . . what he said last night is likely something he wished he could take back but also something any one of us in the same position would have to struggle to restrain ourselves from saying. It's a tightrope that's almost impossible to walk without stumbling. If you dare to answer a question truthfully ("We had protection problems"), you risk the inevitable backlash ("He threw his teammates under the bus!").

When I criticize someone, the first thing I like to ask myself is: Would I have done anything different? And after hearing those questions over and over and over, I can't say I would have. I'd like to think I would. But I'm not arrogant enough to definitely say I would have taken the high road 100 percent of the time. Can every person on here say that they would have been able to resist saying, "Fuck you, Gregg Doyel!" ? Hell, we say that on here even when we are not being personally singled out for failure. Discussions get locked because we can't restrain ourselves if someone gets under our skin.

And while you may not want to hear it, what he said was basically true. Joe Unemployed woke up this morning wondering how he would pay the mortgage and support his family. LeBron James woke up this morning with a net worth of about half a billion dollars whose biggest problem is . . . not winning a basketball game. All other so-called problems (his legacy, etc.) are not problems at all. They are the cherry on top that either will or won't be there when all is said and done.

 

Agreed Shockey. Here's one observation: If James wins next year -- and Miami will likely be the preseason favorite, wouldn't you think? -- then people will start remembering the celebration instead of his reaction to the loss and they'll start to remember what he did to contribute to the win more than what he failed to do in past losses.

I don't think of James character as being drastically different from other egomaniacs that have been stars in this league. But I do think the scrutiny is greater. There was no NBA TV carrying entire post-game pressers. Stupid comments could be reported but seeing them said in their full context is a bit different and, coupled with the information overload available these days, it can magnify villainy even more. I'm sure Isiah Thomas is glad NBA TV and the 24-hour news cycle was not around for his stupidity in the late 80s, early 90s. Back then, the stupidest of his stupid was seen on SportsCenter and there was probably discussion of the increased scrutiny that led to his stupidity to be blown out of context. If only they knew what was coming ...

But when/if James finally wins one, the same news cycle is going to celebrate him just short of making him out to be Jesus. They are already making Dirk out to be the best thing out of Germany since the Autobahn. And Dirk is an understated star.

Bottom line: James wins and all will be forgiven.

Except in Cleveland.

 

I'll remember that quote in 25 years when he's spent it all and has no means to make any back.

 

Never again deny that on this board, you are an apologist for athletes and their interests.

 

where to begin? okay, as noted in 'the big chill,' most people utter a couple of rationalizations daily. i was only referring to the rationalizations of lebron lovers 'round here.

--i don't know that anyone dismissed the possibility of lebron winning 6 titles by saying 'the decision' will cheapen it. i can only say i never made such.

--i never, EVER called lebron 'a bust.' i've given him many props for being a wonderful player. my jabs at him on this board have had to do with his behavior/attitude since 'the decision' and the absurdity of comparisons to jordan (and even others) prematurely. and now not just prematurely, but mistakenly.

if there is anyone out there who would still like to argue that lebron still has time to replace jordan as the consensus 'best ever,' well, yes, i'd consider anyone to do that to be a 'fanboi.' from start to finish, mj NEVER in his career came up as small in the post-season as lebron has. and however you want to rationalize the reasons, their records in nba finals will ALWAYS be what prevents lebron from ever holding that fictional title.

whew! did i miss anything?

 

i sincerely disagree. it'll be quite a while before anyone outside of those already set in lebron's corner to forget much of the last year. i truly believe the general populace has soured on him to the point where 1 title makes everything right.

effin' eff -- francesa is saying the exact same thing now on FAN. and you know how much i hate when i agree with that fat effer. or vice versa.