obviously i'll have something to say about this...

Stephen A is an ass. His words mean little. It's very easy to separate the message from the messenger.

 

There is a link between poverty and crime though, and a higher percentage of blacks come from a background of poverty. The easiest way out of poverty is through education, and that's not valued as much as it should be or it wasn't in the "urban" school I taught at.

 

Sportschick - I agree with that about a link between crime and poverty -- and hopefully we'll be serious and civil -- but I guess my point is to redneck America -- black faces on the front page and in trouble only serves to solidfy their stereotypes about crime in this country.

And it just isn't good for this country, in the wake of recent developments, that so many of the first guys to go down under the commish's new "get tough" policies are going to be black.

 

I am being very serious, Zag. I am, for once, trying to get the thread sorta kinda back on track.

And we all know that black athletes aren't the only ones who get in trouble or do bad things (Hancock, LaRussa jump to mind), but Peyton Manning sexually harassing a trainer doesn't get headlines.

 

That's certainly true, and a lot of these athletes came from underprivileged backgrounds and obviously that had a huge impact on the men they are now and the people they surround themselves with, but let's not overlook one factor with pro athletes that makes that correlation relatively moot: These guys aren't poor. Like I said their backgrounds shaped them, but these guys aren't selling drugs or holding up liquor stores, they're committing crimes that, in a lot of cases, only a very rich person could.

 

Yes, there does seem to be somewhat of a double standard in some cases but some guys -- like Pac Man and Chris Henry and to a lesser degree Tank Johnson and Ricky Williams --make it so easy for their enemies to make them the poster children.

That's the larger point -- I was thinking about this today -- if Michael Vick were white, would he be such a polarizing type of guy? I tend to think not, but his legal stuff has made it easier for his detractors to rip him to shreds.

I mean, think about it, people seem to either love and vehemently defend or hate and try to discredit everything the guy does. I think he is a slightly above average quarterback with phenomenal athletic ability -- but certainly not worthy of the attention both positive and negative he receives.

But he really needs to think about that before he does things.

And what did Peyton Manning do? I hadn't heard that one.

 

Boobie - I guess my frustration from the Whitlock's of this world lies here --none of them seem to offer solutions to that problem you are talking about. They all point fingers and are good to throw around blame -- but how do you get guys who came from streets and now make millions to understand that they aren't "keeping it real" by acting like gansters. How do you change that culture and that mindset?

It is a lot easier to toss blame than offer solutions, but that's what we need to start thinking about.

 

True, but at least addressing the problem gets the proverbial ball rolling. If everyone was just content to keep going along like nothing needed to change we'd get nowhere. At least pointing out the problems gets the dialogue started. Whitlock's just a sports columnist; it's going to take people far more intelligent and powerful to actually make some impactful changes.

 

Wow. I guess that timeout did you good zagoshe. And thank you sportschick for giving this thread new legs.

I wish someone had videotaped or recorded on audio the panel discussions both on Imus and Duke and the session titled "Covering race in sports and American culture -- before it covers you" at the Poynter Institute's Sports Journalism Summit. There were some very good points made during both and some great dialogue.

Jemele, feel free to offer a summary since you were on both panels.

 

Maybe you were one of the few teachers that gave a damn about their students. Many teachers I've encountered in my time in "urban" schools had a half glass empty attitude towards their students. We fail to realize that kids are smart enough to know who doesn't give a damn about them, so they give that attitude back in return.

What's funny is hearing from African American elders who said their teachers, who by default were lawyers, engineers and doctors that couldn't find work because of Jim Crow, EXPECTED them to succeed. As for today, my ex-wife thinks I'm making too much of a stink over my daughters school giving them a day off as a reward for NOT fighting during the school year. If you expect our kids to screw up, I don't expect you to teach our children.

 

take your medication jackass. the world will look differently.

 

is that a freakin' indictment? i do not post or read at work, instead i work. that was how many posts that were left on this thread between the time i logged off and logged on. bite me long and slow, how's that?