Offending someone -- does intent need to be considered?

Yeah. I don't know how a Chaz Bono reference can be taken any other way than to be offended.

Intent matters to the degree the apology is sincere -- which, if there was no ill intent, there should be an apology.

 

Let me complicate your question, IJAG.

A couple of times, someone has said something blatantly anti-Semitic in my presence, and the apology has been "I didn't know/completely forgot that you're Jewish." So the intention wasn't to offend me, but it damn sure was to say something bigoted. Yeah, that's offensive.

 

You Jews. You're so sensitive.

 

It's part of our charm.

 

I guess have a problem with the premise the question; it seems like it's being asked from the wrong perspective. It isn't up to the person who makes the potentially-offensive comment to decide whether it's offensive or not. You may not think it's offensive, but if the person receiving the comment is offended, then it's offensive. There is no objective, reasonable person standard for offense because everyone's situation and life experience is different.

You may think making a joke about a fat person to a normal-sized or thin person is perfectly harmless, but that person's parent or sibling could have died of heart disease or diabetes brought on by their weight. You just never know. I'm not saying people shouldn't make jokes or comments or whatever, but you're assuming the risk of offending someone when you do. You don't get to decide how offended someone else gets.

 

My father died when I was 19. Every single year since, at least one person who didn't know my father was dead has asked me what I got him for Father's Day. I'm not an emotional person, and I really don't get offended by anything. So I don't mind explaining and wish those people would feel less awkward and touchy about it.

I'm more angered by fake sympathy than anything. I can't stand the expression, "I'm so sorry to hear about [insert tragic event in other person's life]." You're sorry to hear about it? You're fine with it happening, then, as long as you never have to hear about it? Think about your words before you speak. I admit this pet peeve probably has something to do with being a copy editor.

But my dad died years ago. When you ask me what I got him for Father's Day, I'm more than happy to politely explain that he's dead. I'm not offended. Don't say you're sorry to hear about my loss. Don't ever tell someone you're sorry to hear about their loss. That's bullshit.

I got completely sidetracked, IJAG, but to answer your proposed question: "Fuck your mom" is an insult no matter how you spin it, but your mom being dead isn't relevant if the person didn't know your mom was dead. If the person said "Fuck your mom" as a joke, they almost assuredly didn't know she was dead. If they were legitimately trying to insult you, mission accomplished. You're offended at their comment. That your mom is dead only makes their comment more harsh, thus more successful as an insult.

 

Is it the "hear about" part that's "bullshit"?

Is it okay to just say, "Sorry for your loss"?

 

It's mostly the "hear about" part that I can't stand, but really, stop apologizing for things you played no role in. When I find out that a friend or family member has incurred a loss, I offer condolences. I ask if there's anything I can do to help. I don't apologize for something that had nothing to do with me. It seems awfully self-centered.

I realize that people just say these things because they're what's said. But I can't stand people who say things they don't mean. Think about the words coming from your mouth.

Again, I'm aware these feelings are mostly just a personal pet-peeve.

 

- Just apply a "known or reasonably should have known" standard.

- "Sorry" is not just an apology.

 

"Sorry" to me is condolences. Someone tells me something, I say "Oh, I'm so sorry" and if they want to talk about it, it's there.

And again, the "fuck your mom" was just an example of how you don't know everyone's life story. Please don't fixate on that.


And Clever, that's a large part of what I said to this friend.

 

Well put.

Ignorance is not a complete defense. I've told this story on here before in a different context. I was buying something at a convenience store and started to leave when the cashier realized she had given me less change than she should have. She called me back, saying, "I Jewed you out of your change."

Given that she didn't know me and the look on her face, I'm sure she had no idea I am Jewish. I don't think she even realized the meaning of what she said. Doesn't change the fact that I WAS offended and I explained why. I made damn sure she realized I was pissed and with good reason.

Now if it is something as simple as somebody not realizing I'm Jewish and wishing me a Merry Christmas, I just smile and say the same in return. I used to wish them a Happy Channukah just to be an ass, but I realized it embarrassed people who were just trying to be nice.

 

I think it matters on some level, but it doesn't excuse it.