Ortiz, ManRam tested positive in 2003?

Right. But Palmeiro isn't close to any borderline that's ever been drawn. He has 3,020 hits and 569 home runs. That's a lock.

My point is --- you can't handpick the steroid users you're going to "allow" in. Either they all stay out, or you ignore the positive tests, chalk it up to the era and let em in.

I personally don't think Palmeiro will ever be elected. And if that's the case, then what possible rationale would be used to elect someone like Manny, who now has TWO positive tests? They both had unbelieveable career numbers. They both used steroids. They are in the same boat.

 

He will be an interesting case study. Because he's the ONE guy (maybe Clemens, too?) I think who we can all assume was a Hall of Fame player BEFORE he started enjoying the wonders of flaxseed oil.
He could've retired in 1999 and been a first ballot guy.
But how long will it take him now?

 

Take away the performance enhancing drugs, and Ramirez's case is stronger. Is there any doubt about that?

Actually, the voters can hand pick which users they are going to allow in. In fact, that's exactly how this is going to happen. Each player is voted on individually. Some guys won't let in any users. Some won't give a damn. Some will just hold the users to a higher standard. That last group is where you might see Manny Ramirez get in, but Palmiero or McGwire get left out.

And I don't care how many times a player tests positive. If they get caught once, you have to suspect everything they did in their careers.

 

Palmeiro was a master aggregator without really being a standout (Molitor was too, but he got in). Raffy certainly didn't help define his era in a positive way. So I wouldn't have put him in even before he shit the bed he made and lied in.

 

Palmeiro never stood out, true. But you'd ignore a 500-3,000 guy just because he wasn't flashy?
That's harsh, man.

 

and Ortiz hits a 3-run HR to give the Sox a 6-5 lead in the 7th

 

Manny's getting in because of what everyone could see with their own eyes.

The dude was a freak of nature hitter. With juice, without juice, I don't care.

 

What if the freak hitter was just that because of the juice?

 

If that were the case we'd be talking about Nefi Perez and wheter or not he should be getting in or not. Sorry, but that is very naive.

 

http://bostonroidsox.com/

 

Question: If steroid use was as widespread as seems to be the case, then how is it cheating? The opposing pitcher is as likely to have been juicing as the home team batter and vice versa. If there's no competitive advantage except some artificial boost to certain statistics, then we Hall voters should just judge players from the PED Era in terms of their performance compared to their contemporaries, shouldn't we?
Just like now.

 

But a string of .300-25-85's don't quite look the same as a string of .320-40-130