Penn State AD charged with perjury -- UPDATE 2 Sandusky Arrested Again

RickStain · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

jr/shotglass said:

Look, Rick, the point is this.

There's little argument that what has been proven about Paterno to this point indicates culpability on his part and indicated enough alarm for his employment to be terminated.

But what you, and LongTimeListener, and YankeeFan have been doing a lot of is taking the raw facts and then injecting your own worst-case scenarios onto the landscape. The "it seems pretty likely to me" stuff. Not good enough.

You have a strong enough case without doing that. It's shoddy.
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Citation needed. I've never once said Paterno is definitively guilty of anything more than the undisputed facts. I've frequently said that it's plausible, possible and even likely that he's guilty of more.

Guy_Incognito · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

Double Down said:

The Times story had an unnamed source who contradicted Paterno's claim McQueary did not go into detail. They did not hint at who it was, obviously, but they do have someone essentially calling JoePa a liar. Or a forgetful grandpa or whatever.

Here is what bugs me the most about the media people saying Paterno is getting a raw deal here and that we should focus on those who really deserve blame and not him because he did what he was required to do: For the most part, all of them played a role, big or small, in celebrating Paterno for his supposed values and virtues. He was what was great about college sports because he was different and therefor worthy of our praise and admiration.

Now, when shit goes down they want us to hold him to the same standard we hold Barry Switzer.

To whom much is given, much is asked. Joe Paterno either was better than the cesspool of sharks in college football, or he was not.

It's not unfair to hold him to a higher standard than others here. Because in good times, he made us all believe if there was one man we'd ask to guide us through the rough waters, one man we could trust, it was Joe Paterno.

You don't get to have it both ways.
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I don't agree with this. You can hold him to a higher standard when you're deciding whether or not to be disappointed, but not criminally or even in terms of losing his job.

LongTimeListener · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

Double Down said:

The Times story had an unnamed source who contradicted Paterno's claim McQueary did not go into detail. They did not hint at who it was, obviously, but they do have someone essentially calling JoePa a liar. Or a forgetful grandpa or whatever.

Here is what bugs me the most about the media people saying Paterno is getting a raw deal here and that we should focus on those who really deserve blame and not him because he did what he was required to do: For the most part, all of them played a role, big or small, in celebrating Paterno for his supposed values and virtues. He was what was great about college sports because he was different and therefor worthy of our praise and admiration.

Now, when shit goes down they want us to hold him to the same standard we hold Barry Switzer.

To whom much is given, much is asked. Joe Paterno either was better than the cesspool of sharks in college football, or he was not.

It's not unfair to hold him to a higher standard than others here. Because in good times, he made us all believe if there was one man we'd ask to guide us through the rough waters, one man we could trust, it was Joe Paterno.

You don't get to have it both ways.
Click to expand...

Times had a good story today on the current governor, who was the prosecutor in charge of this case when it started; according to this article, he was pushing the BOT hard to fire Paterno, doing what he could (within the privacy restrictions) to hint at how bad this case is going to get.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/sports/ncaafootball/tom-corbett-pennsylvania-governor-couldnt-discuss-inquiry.html?_r=1&hp

Obviously just message-board spitballing here, but I think someone in the governor's office -- or his former chain of command -- could be the source to which DD is referring.

jr/shotglass · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

RickStain said:

jr/shotglass said:

Look, Rick, the point is this.

There's little argument that what has been proven about Paterno to this point indicates culpability on his part and indicated enough alarm for his employment to be terminated.

But what you, and LongTimeListener, and YankeeFan have been doing a lot of is taking the raw facts and then injecting your own worst-case scenarios onto the landscape. The "it seems pretty likely to me" stuff. Not good enough.

You have a strong enough case without doing that. It's shoddy.
Click to expand...

Citation needed. I've never once said Paterno is definitively guilty of anything more than the undisputed facts. I've frequently said that it's plausible, possible and even likely that he's guilty of more.
Click to expand...

No citation needed. You repeated exactly what I said. You DON'T say "definitively guilty." Saying it's plausible, possible and even likely is not necessary. Just address those facts.

poindexter · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

For what its worth, Chris Knoche appeared on AM 980 in DC this week. He is a former head basketball coach at American University - a DI program.

He says the head coach knows EVERYTHING that goes on in his program. Everything. YES, I realize that American University basketball is not at the same level as Penn State football.

But to think that Joe Paterno knew nothing about Sandusky's molestation is asinine. For F's sake, Sandusky was shitcanned from the program and his keys taken away from the facilities - HOW COULD THE HEAD COACH NOT KNOW WHY?

Take off the blinders, folks.

Stoney · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

Double Down said:

The Times story had an unnamed source who contradicted Paterno's claim McQueary did not go into detail. They did not hint at who it was, obviously, but they do have someone essentially calling JoePa a liar. Or a forgetful grandpa or whatever.
Click to expand...

Unless it's McQueary himself, I'm not sure how that unnamed source would know. There's only two people that will ever know precisely what words McQueary used when he told Paterno.

Lugnuts · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

Early in this thread I wondered why Paterno hadn't been charged with failure to report.

It's actually perjury they could get him on.

But he's their celebrity witness against the other fools. Not charging him pretty much ensures they convict everybody else.

jr/shotglass · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

poindexter said:

Take off the blinders, folks.
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Wearing the "blinders" is how you need to go about this, poin. Because if you don't, you throw your own biases and expectations into the issue.

That may not sound right, but it's true.

Lugnuts · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

Stoney said:

Unless it's McQueary himself, I'm not sure how that unnamed source would know. There's only two people that will ever know precisely what words McQueary used when he told Paterno.
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You're forgetting the dad.

YankeeFan · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

jr/shotglass said:

Found the opening statment to be interesting reading.

http://www.thesecondmile.org/welcome.php
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You know what, fuck this charity and everyone involved with it.

Here's the picture on its front page right now:

Cute, smiling, mostly white girls. They don't even look "under privileged."

Here's the picture that used to be on that page:

From the way back machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20110510083534/http://www.thesecondmile.org/welcome.php

All boys. A mix of races.

Fuck them.

Double Down · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

Stoney said:

Double Down said:

The Times story had an unnamed source who contradicted Paterno's claim McQueary did not go into detail. They did not hint at who it was, obviously, but they do have someone essentially calling JoePa a liar. Or a forgetful grandpa or whatever.
Click to expand...

Unless it's McQueary himself, I'm not sure how that unnamed source would know. There's only two people that will ever know precisely what words McQueary used when he told Paterno.
Click to expand...

Really? You really believe that meeting was a one-on-one and no one else was present or ever told what transpired?

Guy_Incognito · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Penn State AD charged with perjury -- *UPDATE* Paterno Fired

Stoney said:

Double Down said:

The Times story had an unnamed source who contradicted Paterno's claim McQueary did not go into detail. They did not hint at who it was, obviously, but they do have someone essentially calling JoePa a liar. Or a forgetful grandpa or whatever.
Click to expand...

Unless it's McQueary himself, I'm not sure how that unnamed source would know. There's only two people that will ever know precisely what words McQueary used when he told Paterno.
Click to expand...

If Paterno told him.

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Penn State AD charged with perjury -- UPDATE 2 Sandusky Arrested Again

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Penn State AD charged with perjury -- UPDATE 2 Sandusky Arrested Again