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Was confused by your use of the present tense.

 

Well, 'forgiveness' and 'punishment' still travel on separate but parallel tracks in most religions, including Catholicism. Punish the sin, forgive the sinner.

 

Good.

 

Not being snarky here in the least, but to respond to this accurately would be the mother of all thread jacks. Suffice it to say that the phrase "punish the sin ..." misses the mark substantially as regards Christian (and Catholic) theology.

 

I'll just add that it should be "hate the sin, not the sinner." And forgiveness and punishment aren't mutually exclusive.

 

In what way?

We punish the theft, but forgive the thief.

 

In Christian theology (and several others) all sin, regardless of its severity, is a sin against God. Given that, punishment is to be reserved for God. That's a big piece of Christian theology. Because man's sin was an affront to, indeed a rejection of, God, man would never be capable of offering up a sufficient atonement for his sin. Only Jesus, as both man and God, was able to pull that off. That's the idea.

Apologies for the sermon. Absolutely not trying to convert anyone here (but, hey, maybe I'll get a little clubhouse credit if I do? ). Just trying to paint an accurate picture about the theological point I'd been trying to make.

Back to making jocular comments about old tenured assholes. I'm on much more solid ground when that's what I am talking about.

 

Christ asks that our forgiveness be unconditional.

But neither Christ nor the Bible expect man (though fallen) to live in a state of lawlessness.

We - society - punish the sin (theft, murder, etc.) and are asked to forgive the sinner.

Punishment and forgiveness exist simultaneously but separately as a matter of social fact.

Absolution is another story.

 

As are old tenured assholes.

Not dismissing what you've written ... it's just that, while stimulating, our turn here (largely my fault) is getting very far afield from the thread. Don't wanna be blamed (or feel guilty) if it gets locked as a result.

 

OK. But I'll remind you it was the Second Council of Nicea (ca 787 CE) which instructed us all to "Stand up. Punch back."

 

I thought it was the Judean People's Front?

 

Nope. People's Front of Judea.