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President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    What? How does that follow? And why are they the relevant questions?
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    How does what follow? Can you be more specific?

    They are relevant questions because he said that federal funding of the arts "leads" to "some really nice" things. He will know what I was getting at, I am sure.

    One of two things is true: Either 1) Those things wouldn't exist without federal funding, which means that the utility they bring in the aggregate isn't as "really nice" to most people as lots of other things those people have chosen to have instead. Or 2) those things would exist without public funding, in which case, government funding isn't what is "leading" to them, and in fact, that public funding is crowding out investment (and potentially depriving all of us of even NICER things).
     
  3. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I think you're wrong in assuming that the Bible-clutching tight asses want "exactly" that (it to be shut down); shutting it down is not enabling a heckler's veto.
     
  4. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    But we aren't starting from ground zero. They do exist, in part at least due to public funding. That can cut either way, but it's the relevant question as opposed to the alternate history you want to engage in.
    Same is true for the AMA, or the New Deal for that matter.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Take away public funding. Would people choose (or have chosen) to fund those things on their own? Or wouldn't they?

    If they would, public funding isn't what "leads" those things.

    If they wouldn't, from a utility standpoint people have made other choices about how to allocate our resources.

    That isn't engaging in "alternative history." It's very straightforward.
     
  6. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I would, of course, lean toward the latter, but I would note that we aren't talking about a whole lot of money (relatively speaking). I mean, if we could get those things for $1, it's true that we'd be crowding out investment, but I'd be surprised if anybody thought we were making a bad bargain.

    As re: No. 1 there ... An economist once was talking about the difference between what people said they preferred and what they actually preferred. He told the story of an art museum, the board of which was making plans for exhibits for the coming season and was reading suggestions made by frequent patrons. During a break, one of the board members struck up a conversation with a member of the custodial staff. The board member talked about what a hard time the board was having making sense of what the patrons said they really wanted. The custodian crooked his finger and quietly said, "Come this way, please." They walked through the exhibits, the custodian noting how nicely the carpet was holding up. Then they came to the one place in the museum where the carpet was way the hell worn out.

    Right in front of the nudes.
     
    Neutral Corner likes this.
  7. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    Because conservatives got upset when Obama breathed. Every breath for eight years. How many bills to overturn Obamacare? How many investigations of emails! Benghazi! And Justice Garland says hi. And, at least according to leadership now, that never happened and we're all supposed to get along and go along?
     
    dixiehack and Inky_Wretch like this.
  8. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    Who are you fighting against?
     
  9. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

  10. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    And I'm saying that the parentheses make a big difference. My guess is that they wouldn't have but now that they did, would choose to keep them going. If they want to make the argument that the history of public support of the Arts was the head start that the fine arts needed to get started, but now is mature enough to thrive on its own without the artificial boost, like an endowment designed to spend down and expire after X number of years, I think that's an argument that is more easy to entertain than "I hate opera" or "NPR is liberal," both of which are true but not so relevant.
     
  11. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    Just answering your question.
     
  12. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    If anyone else had posted that tweet, I would read it as sarcasm and a shot at Trump.
     
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