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RIP Mike Penner

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Mr. X, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    I don't think anyone is suggesting that whozit's snide comment drove Penner to suicide. But it was classless. Hurtful. Show me anywhere in his career this guy noted the personal appearance of another sports writer, man or woman. Jackass.
     
  2. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    Thought-provoking story by the LA Times. I'm so glad they did it.

    The thing that seemed to eat at Christine is something that has-- at one time or another-- bothered every single woman the world over since the beginning of time: She didn't feel pretty.

    If I had known her, I think I would have said, "Welcome to being a woman. It really stinks sometimes."

    Similarly, after the reading the cruel Paul O comment, I thought: Now Christine knows something every single female sports journalist the world over has endured: Being looked over and judged on her appearance by some of her male colleagues. We've all been there, haven't we, gingerbread?

    And to Christine, I think I would have said, "Welcome to being a female sports journalist. It really stinks sometimes."

    I wish there had been a way to explain to Christine that... these feelings you're having... I have them, too... and I was born a woman.

    I thought the most telling quote was from the friend who said Christine had a fantasy about what being a woman was like.

    Well, there are seriously days when it ain't all that.
     
  3. Piotr Rasputin

    Piotr Rasputin New Member

    A friend of mine, a journalist who is prominent in the American soccer journalism world, said that at the big David Beckham event Christine Daniels was openly speaking about suficial things regarding her transition: her new life, how cool it was to be able to comment on how cute Beckham is, etc. My friend noted that Daniels had a lot to learn about being a woman, and that the things that Daniels thought made a woman - learning how to apply makeup, clothing, looking at guys, saying she could now express emotions, enjoying shopping, etc. - barely scratched the surface.
     
  4. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    Sad story.

    One of the greatest gifts a person can have is the ability not to give a crap what others think.
     
  5. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    That's unspeakably sad, to think those things didn't apply if you were a man.

    I'm a regular guy, and I've never thought or been encouraged to think that showing my emotions made me less of a man. I also like shopping.

    I suppose this is all a good indicator of how naive one can be about life. You might think you're ridding yourself of your problems by being true to yourself, or what you think is true to yourself.....but generally you just end up with new or different problems. And if you don't have a good mental state and a solid support system, it can all come crashing down in one hell of a hurry.
     
  6. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    Despite my feelings about what Paul Oberjuerge wrote -- colossally pointless, nothing-but-mean-spirited trash that was written for no other reason than that he could and was allowed to do so -- I suspect that the break-up of Penner's marriage may have had as much to do with his deep despondency as his struggles with self-identity and self-esteem did.

    As someone who occasionally has struggled with depression, I know that, sometimes, just that one key relationship -- and yes, it usually has to be that one -- can make all the difference, either way, to someone suffering in the throes of such a condition and its accompanying demons.

    A person may not necessarily really care what "everyone" thinks, despite seeming appearances to the contrary. Usually, though, there is someone that, yes, we most definitely care what they think.

    It's so poignant, really. I can't imagine what the couple and family must have had to go through, and that's why I'd have advocated letting the story go -- in deference to those still possibly being affected by the situation, and yes, especially because those are some of the Times' own.
     
  7. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    And you know, a lot of us women derive so much pleasure out of talking about shoes, clothes, makeup, hair... It's part of the 'fun' of being a woman... when you're doing it in the right time and place.

    But nobody must have gotten across to Christine about the "athlete is cute" taboo. If you're a female sports reporter, you just can't go there about the attractiveness of athletes. Not in public, not in private. Nothing good ever comes of it. Not even to your best girlfriends. Do male sports reporters get a pass on comments about attractive female athletes? You bet. Is there a double standard? You bet.

    Sadly, one of the people best able to help him understand some of this stuff might have been his wife. He turned to the transgender community for support, which he obviously needed, but they may have been the least equipped to help him navigate standard operating procedures for female sports reporters.

    What he really may have needed was support from people who were born women and/or worked in the field.

    God, how tragic.
     
  8. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    I understand what you're saying Write ... but I don't recall being appointed a sensitivity policeman when I signed on. We start applying the "we can't run this it will hurt someone's feelings" standard to what we do, pretty soon the paper's full of nothing but stories like "Podunk family adopts three kittens from shelter." And stretched to an extreme, you could say that about the simplest gamer, because the team that lost might be offended. And we're not being true to our profession if we avoid those type of stories.
     
  9. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    I am with Han here. Would we have felt the same way if Paul O wrote that about an athlete or team owner?

    Not something I would have done, but we have to realize that what we write can hurt -- whether we realize it or intend it or not.
     
  10. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    It is worth noting that a man who would prefer to dress as a woman can still be straight. So if Penner/Daniels was talking about Beckham being cute but was still married to a woman, the decision to be a public cross-dresser could have been far from the only tricky thing going on in his psyche.
     
  11. PCLoadLetter

    PCLoadLetter Well-Known Member

    While Paul O's comments were certainly unnecessary and mean, I suspect the whole issue of pretty/not pretty probably had very little to do with Mike Penner's sad demise.

    From what I've read about him, it appears Mike was quietly miserable and depressed, and decided it was ultimately because he was a woman in a man's body. I'm guessing that somewhere after becoming Christine there had to be a crushing moment when he realized he was miserable and depressed, and wearing a dress didn't fix it. I can't imagine how hard it would be to go through that process and then realize you were wrong -- that a gender issue wasn't really the key to your depression.
     
  12. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    So you think his conflictedness over gender had nothing to do with his depression? It was just depression irrespective of anything in particular?
     
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