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Romney a Lock - You Can Put it On the Board YESSSS!!

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 5, 2012.

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Page 105 of 169
  1. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    I don't agree at all. I can certainly take the position that an economy needs stimulus right now and still agree that ridiculous spending levels during other periods/cycles have contributed to the financial predicament they face. Timing is everything.
     
    cranberry, Apr 25, 2012
    #1249
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Greece's ability to lend passed its breaking point. So there is nothing to provide "stimulus" with. They are in default (whatever euphamisms the rest of the EU wants to use to avoid using the term).

    Greece has created a situation -- even WITH the austerity measures -- in which its 10-year notes pay a 21 percent interest rate. It's debt is at 165 percent of GDP. Even with the forced austerity, it is STILL spending more than it brings in, so that percentage is increasing. It can't even afford to service its current rising debt WITH austerity measures because they have created a situation where their lending costs are so high. So where does the "stimulus" come from? They are already into every bookie in town and have leg breakers bearing down on them every time they walk out the door.

    Being a sovereign -- they can do what sovereigns have been doing for centuries, which is spend without regard to making good on their debts -- and then reneg. And that would tear the EU apart, but give Greece a fresh start.

    The problem is that the fresh start still doesn't provide the "stimulus" you are talking about. Their ability to lend will remain severely hampered, and their economy will stagnate for years either way.

    The "spend your way out of philosophy" is viable (not effective, but viable) as long as you can still convince people to lend to you at reasonably low rates. The Eurozone nations are long past that. They can print money, and they are (using the Federal Reserve as their tool -- we are exchanging dollars for Euros and transferring their problems to our balance sheet). But trying to inflate away your debt doesn't solve your problems either. It just prolongs them.

    The playbook you are describing is pretty much closed.
     
    The Big Ragu, Apr 25, 2012
    #1250
  3. exmediahack

    exmediahack Well-Known Member

    I am just not sure where Obama's ceiling is. I can't imagine too many people who voted for McCain who will vote for Obama in 2012. Not sure about his retention rate about the 2008 Obama voters but his appeal to pick up from McCain voters can't be that high.

    Even George W. Bush increased his vote totals in 2004 and I chalk that up to a booming economy that year. Obama doesn't have that.

    That's why Obama is going on Fallon, or to a college today. To try and build up his base as this week's theme is College Loans... Of course, if these students could actually find jobs related to their degree, the mess over loan repayment wouldn't exist (Last week Buffett Rule, before that Free Trojans). Because Obama has so many fragile coalitions to keep together, his message will be somewhat muted and not broad-based. He needs to hope that unemployment goes down... But not too much so that people won't feel dependent on the government. He needs houses to start selling again... But just enough to get re-elected. He needs George Zimmerman to be found not guilty, sparking unrest which he will take full advantage of from his base. Obama has a tough road, especially in OH, IN, NC and VA.

    Romney only has to please the Republican base. That won't be too difficult in the next six months.
     
    exmediahack, Apr 25, 2012
    #1251
  4. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    I am a registered Republican and will be voting for Obama because Mitt is a clown. I don't like everything about Obama but overall he has done a good job given the circumstances he has been under. Personally he is a very likable guy. I refuse to just vote for the uniform.

    If I am voting this way I am sure there are plenty of others also. The feeling within the Republican party about Mitt being the candidate is lukewarm at best. It does not bode well for the election. A lot of apathy out there.
     
    Boom_70, Apr 25, 2012
    #1252
  5. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Can you imagine how people in the U.S. would react if, like Spain's, they were told that they would need to suck it up for a few more years when they've already been withstanding huge spending cuts for an extended period, unemployment is still around 24 percent and their economy had just fallen back into recession?

    We can sit here and say, "great, they're taking their medicine" all we want but, at end, you still have millions of people suffering and a tanked economy.
     
    cranberry, Apr 25, 2012
    #1253
  6. exmediahack

    exmediahack Well-Known Member

    Fair enough. :). Question: did you vote for McCain in 2008? Plenty of Republicans voted Obama or sat 2008 out.
     
    exmediahack, Apr 25, 2012
    #1254
  7. Uncle.Ruckus

    Uncle.Ruckus Guest

    Keep thinking the Republican base is somehow the majority in this country, let alone even a plurality. No need at all to fight for the middle, according to your line of thinking.

    When Willard gets his clock cleaned, it's going to be all the more gratifying when people like you realize how out of touch you are with reality.
     
    Uncle.Ruckus, Apr 25, 2012
    #1255
  8. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Yes I voted for McCain. In fact the only time I ever voted for a Democrat was back in grade school. We had a civics class where the teacher ran a pseudo election. The hip candidate was George McGovern. It seemed like all the cool teenagers were driving around with McGovern stickers on their VW Bugs so that is the way I went. What did I know.
     
    Boom_70, Apr 25, 2012
    #1256
  9. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    I can imagine it'd look a lot like what we're going through right now, only amplified.
     
    RickStain, Apr 25, 2012
    #1257
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Doc on the other hand the idiocy of you and your like might drive me to Mitt just for spite.
     
    Boom_70, Apr 25, 2012
    #1258
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not saying "great" at all!

    I am saying that they are where they are because of a situation they created.

    It's not like I don't feel horrible for the people living with it now.

    What you are suggesting, though, aren't solutions. It's more of what got them there in the first place.

    What I was pointing out, though, was that these are countries now at the point that they can't keep doubling down by borrowing. That is why they are in a crisis. They have reached their borrowing limits, and in the case of Greece, and a couple of other countries soon, they can't afford to service their debts, so they have to default on their loans. That makes it even harder to borrow, obviously, because only sky high rates will induce any sort of lending.

    So it's not like anyone has to impose the suffering of the tanked economies on these countries. They are already facing it due to years of horrible fiscal policy that offered borrowed services that just added debt upon debt and an inability to get people to pay taxes anywhere near what is required to spend that much above your means.

    And by the way, you are wrong. Spain is in that much of a mess WITHOUT the huge spending cuts. The huge spending cuts are still to come, unfortunately. When you get to the point they are at, you are essentially out of options. It's not anyone telling you to suck it up. It's you having no choice, because you are likely going to default on your debts and the cost of borrowing doesn't even service your already enormous debt, let alone more spending, which sounds like it would be your prescription. It's not a viable prescription, though. You can't spend money that you can no longer borrow. Every penny they borrow nowadays just keeps their head bobbing above the water. There is no "stimulus" to be had.
     
    The Big Ragu, Apr 25, 2012
    #1259
  12. britwrit

    britwrit Well-Known Member

    The Greek government didn't get into this mess by itself. It also took the big European banks, who decided to loan them gobs of money in defiance of the fact that Greece was, well, Greece.

    Lending to Greece in 2006 was like lending money to your imaginary alcoholic brother-in-law. Sure, it's been some time since his last DUI and hey, he's been going to AA meetings for three whole months now! but really... that cash is gone forever. Wave it goodbye.

    At some point - probably far, far in the future - European banks won't able to run to Germany and the ECB when their stupid business decisions blow up in their faces. And when it does, Europe will be a better place for it.
     
    britwrit, Apr 25, 2012
    #1260
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