Running 2010 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament thread

Trey Beamon · Mar 27, 2010

Not bad for a pretty meh 3-point shooting team.

MileHigh · Mar 27, 2010

WaylonJennings said:

MileHigh said:

Again, had those schools made the Final Four, they'd be called a midmajor. You know it. And everyone else knows it.
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You're forgetting that Utah did a few years ago. I don't remember anyone calling them that. They get that tag in football because of the racket that goes on in that sport.
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Actually, I don't remember the "midmajor" tag being applied back then, in 1998, because it wasn't used like it is today. Kind of like "walkoff." And the MWC wasn't established then. Utah still was in the WAC.

EagleMorph · Mar 27, 2010

By the way, teams that spend above that $2 million and $20 million threshold beat the teams that spend below an average of almost 90% of the time.

EagleMorph · Mar 27, 2010

MileHigh said:

WaylonJennings said:

MileHigh said:

Again, had those schools made the Final Four, they'd be called a midmajor. You know it. And everyone else knows it.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that Utah did a few years ago. I don't remember anyone calling them that. They get that tag in football because of the racket that goes on in that sport.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't remember the "midmajor" tag being applied back then, in 1998, because it wasn't used like it is today. Kind of like "walkoff." And the MWC wasn't established then. Utah still was in the WAC.
Click to expand...

The mid-major phrase exploded with the rise of Gonzaga and the rise of the internet as the debate around small schools picked up.

93Devil · Mar 27, 2010

Michael_ Gee said:

Come on. These guys took Syracuse's best shot, then made every play down the stretch to win. Then they did the same thing against K-State. Flukes don't do that back-to-back. These guys are as legit as any of the other three teams that'll be there.
PS: I hope the hobos have the good sense to flee Manhattan before Frank Martin gets back.
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Congrats to Butler, but you could have seen months ago that the top college teams (outside of Kentucky) were not that great. The upper crust has regressed dramatically to the middle.

The stars have aligned this season for a Butler to make the Final Four, and they have a legit shot to win this whole damn thing.

Piotr Rasputin · Mar 27, 2010

EagleMorph said:

Piotr Rasputin said:

If we're going to sit here and say "Oh, Gonzaga has established a national presence, and so has Butler. So they're no longer mid-majors, even if they are in non-major conferences," then is the flip side to say that Oregon State/Northwestern/other mediocre major-conference basketball school is now a "mid-major" in basketball because they haven't done a damn thing?

(I'll happily hear arguments for the Indiana Hoosiers having descended into this status as well)
Click to expand...

There's something to be said for incompetence. Wins and losses have little to do with it. That's why "mid-major" can't be an arbitrary label, something that works along the lines of the earlier description of pornography. There has to be an actual classification to it and process behind it, and money is the easiest and clearest way to do it.

Essentially it says if you spend $2 million or more on hoops AND $20 million or more on athletics in general, you're a major school. Spend less in one or both categories, you're a mid-major.

And guess what, only eight conferences spend more in both. The ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-10, Mountain West, and C-USA. Teams that have the money and don't do well are just incompetent, not mid-majors.

Being a mid-major isn't a state of mind or a simple label. It's a hard financial reality.
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Al true, but when you start talking about athletic budgets, you're in a realm that the NCAA doesn't want its television partners to touch.

It's easier for them to just apply the label to all teams outside of the six biggest conferences, and use conference affiliation as the standard instead of getting into monetary issues.

MileHigh · Mar 27, 2010

EagleMorph said:

MileHigh said:

WaylonJennings said:

MileHigh said:

Again, had those schools made the Final Four, they'd be called a midmajor. You know it. And everyone else knows it.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that Utah did a few years ago. I don't remember anyone calling them that. They get that tag in football because of the racket that goes on in that sport.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't remember the "midmajor" tag being applied back then, in 1998, because it wasn't used like it is today. Kind of like "walkoff." And the MWC wasn't established then. Utah still was in the WAC.
Click to expand...

The mid-major phrase exploded with the rise of Gonzaga and the rise of the internet as the debate around small schools picked up.
Click to expand...

So ... after Utah made the Final Four.

Batman · Mar 27, 2010

Piotr Rasputin said:

Herky_Jerky said:

And so my annoyance begins anew.

The AP is calling Butler the first mid-major to make the Final Four since George Mason.

Last time I checked, Conference USA and Memphis are mid-major.
Click to expand...

According to the NCAA record books, Memphis did not reach the 2008 Final Four.
Click to expand...

UCLA would be interested to know that.
Does the NCAA go back and retroactively change all the logos to say "2008 Final Three"?

93Devil · Mar 27, 2010

Butler can beat WVU (and every other team left), but I really do not think they can handle Kentucky.

I do think WVU can beat Kentucky if that makes any sense to anyone.

Roscablo · Mar 27, 2010

MileHigh said:

EagleMorph said:

MileHigh said:

WaylonJennings said:

MileHigh said:

Again, had those schools made the Final Four, they'd be called a midmajor. You know it. And everyone else knows it.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that Utah did a few years ago. I don't remember anyone calling them that. They get that tag in football because of the racket that goes on in that sport.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't remember the "midmajor" tag being applied back then, in 1998, because it wasn't used like it is today. Kind of like "walkoff." And the MWC wasn't established then. Utah still was in the WAC.
Click to expand...

The mid-major phrase exploded with the rise of Gonzaga and the rise of the internet as the debate around small schools picked up.
Click to expand...

So ... after Utah made the Final Four.
Click to expand...

And the rise of the BCS, even if football, also plays a huge role in this. It defines "major" conferences. The BCS was in its infancy when Utah made the title game.

WaylonJennings · Mar 27, 2010

EagleMorph said:

Piotr Rasputin said:

If we're going to sit here and say "Oh, Gonzaga has established a national presence, and so has Butler. So they're no longer mid-majors, even if they are in non-major conferences," then is the flip side to say that Oregon State/Northwestern/other mediocre major-conference basketball school is now a "mid-major" in basketball because they haven't done a damn thing?

(I'll happily hear arguments for the Indiana Hoosiers having descended into this status as well)
Click to expand...

There's something to be said for incompetence. Wins and losses have little to do with it. That's why "mid-major" can't be an arbitrary label, something that works along the lines of the earlier description of pornography. There has to be an actual classification to it and process behind it, and money is the easiest and clearest way to do it.

Essentially it says if you spend $2 million or more on hoops AND $20 million or more on athletics in general, you're a major school. Spend less in one or both categories, you're a mid-major.

And guess what, only eight conferences spend more in both. The ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-10, Mountain West, and C-USA. Teams that have the money and don't do well are just incompetent, not mid-majors.

Being a mid-major isn't a state of mind or a simple label. It's a hard financial reality.
Click to expand...

Honestly, this is probably closest to the truth. It's about spending and facilities. But it's not easy to do it by conference. There can be major programs (Gonzaga) in mid-major leagues.

Piotr Rasputin · Mar 27, 2010

Batman said:

UCLA would be interested to know that.
Does the NCAA go back and retroactively change all the logos to say "2008 Final Three"?
Click to expand...

No . . . some ragtag assemblage of undiscovered playground talent known as "(Vacated)" gets to claim that Final Four berth.

WaylonJennings said:

Honestly, this is probably closest to the truth. It's about spending and facilities. But it's not easy to do it by conference. There can be major programs (Gonzaga) in mid-major leagues.
Click to expand...

If it's about facilities, eliminate Gonzaga from the list. Unless a 6,000-seat arena classifies a school as "major"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthey_Athletic_Center

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