Running 2010 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament thread

Crash · Mar 23, 2010

rube said:

spnited said:

No, Mustang, they don't have underdog mentality. They have gone into the first two games EXPECTING to win.
They're not looking at Kentukcy as "Gee, we hope we can keep it close." They are a very good, talented, mature, confident bunch who have been together for four years -- and actually live together in one big house.
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Something to be said for a team who can actually call themselves a team, and a group of talented freshmen who are rentals.
If Cornell keeps this close at the half, there's no telling what might happen – this Kentucky team has played virtually no one all year, the team's that have actually tested them are far less cohesive than Cornell (that includes Tennessee) and when the going gets tough – Demarcus Cousins turns into Rasheed Wallace, and not in a good way.

John Wall's a freak, but when things get dicey with this team Calipari tells Daniel Orton to hit the showers, Cousins to leave the huddle and Wall to put on his superhero cape.
I don't know if Cornell gets it done, but UK will hit a snag at some point and I'd have to think it'll implode in the process.
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For the life of me, I can't understand why Demarcus Cousins gets the bum rap he keeps getting from national media figures. Watch the games. Cousins hasn't done anything since the Louisville game, even though every team has tried to get him going. He caught an elbow to the junk against Tennessee in the SEC tournament and got a technical because Bruce Pearl lobbied for it after his player got kicked out. He got punched in the face by Chas McFarland against Wake, got up and walked away.

Cousins had his problems early this year, but he hasn't been a ticking time bomb since the first week of January.

zagoshe · Mar 23, 2010

Jesus - this is why I hate when a few of the little guys make a run -- all of the sudden Cornell has become 1990 UNLV and they are going to storm through everyone, especially those overrated McDonald All-Americans........ :

Michael_ Gee · Mar 23, 2010

Zag, there's a big difference between people talking about why they consider a team to be a live 'dog in a game and actually forecasting that said underdog will win. As noted here, Kentucky has the ability to put this game out of reach in the first four minutes, and it could get ugly. The Penn team Michigan State humiliated in 1979 was actually a damn good team. It just got down early and disillusionment set in.

zagoshe · Mar 23, 2010

I don't think there is any question that Cornell could win this game. But that team is in the Sweet 16 as much because the field is way down this year and it got two wonderful matchups in the first two rounds.

Let's not forget that they haven't exacltly beaten what anyone would consider a legitimate Final Four contender or even close to that.

The Big Ragu · Mar 23, 2010

zagoshe said:

I don't think there is any question that Cornell could win this game. But that team is in the Sweet 16 as much because the field is way down this year and it got two wonderful matchups in the first two rounds.

Let's not forget that they haven't exactly beaten what anyone would consider a legitimate Final Four contender or even close to that.
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All anyone else has posted is that they think Cornell COULD win this game. No one on here is predicting a win, though. At least boldly. Cornell is a 9-point dog for a reason.

But when you weighed in, it was:

zagoshe said:

Jesus - this is why I hate when a few of the little guys make a run -- all of the sudden Cornell has become 1990 UNLV and they are going to storm through everyone, especially those overrated McDonald All-Americans........ :
Click to expand...

Typical of your posting style. Say something ridiculous and exaggerated, attribute it to others, and then argue.

As for the "wonderful" matchups Cornell had in the first two rounds, based on what criteria? Temple was ranked 12th in the country in the final AP poll. Wisconsin was ranked 16th. Of course those teams were considered Final Four shots, unless your criteria is that only the top 7 teams in the country at the end of the season are considered legitimate Final Four possibilities. Considering that a lot of people thought that Cornell should have been higher than a 12 seed, they absolutely got tough match ups. It's not like they cruised through with wins against East Tennessee State and an unranked Wake Forest team that lost 5 of its last 6 games heading into the tournament -- the way Kentucky did. They've actually had to play elite teams to make it this far, and if they somehow make it to the Final Four, on top of that they will have to have beaten Kentucky (#2 team in the country) and probably West Virginia (#4 team in the country) in the next round.

It's fair to say Cornell is no where on Kentucky's level as a basketball program, if that is a less hyperbolic point you'd like to make, but it's ridiculous to imply that Cornell backed its way into the Sweet 16 or got favorable match ups. They have had the toughest competition of any of the teams that have made it this far, except UNI, because UNI had to face Kansas in the second round.

mustangj17 · Mar 23, 2010

dreunc1542 said:

spnited said:

No, Mustang, they don't have underdog mentality. They have gone into the first two games EXPECTING to win.
They're not looking at Kentukcy as "Gee, we hope we can keep it close." They are a very good, talented, mature, confident bunch who have been together for four years -- and actually live together in one big house.
Click to expand...

Exactly. They have no need to see themselves as an underdog because they know they can play with any team in the country.

Now, if you go matchup-by-matchup with them and Kentucky, Wittman against either Bledsoe or Miller would be the only one you could give to Cornell, but they're a very good TEAM, and that's what's important right now.

Plus, in talking about Kentucky's talent, people need to remember that this is a classic Calipari team, which means they can't shoot free throws for shit. That makes them very susceptible in a close game the rest of the way. They need to blow teams out, because in a tight game, I don't feel comfortable taking Kentucky (except for against WVU, where being a Huggins team mitigates any advantage the 'Neers might have).
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Yeah they know they aren't a pushover. But they got a 12-seed. So apparently they have a chip on their shoulder against the committee who thinks Cornell isn't worthy.

The Big Ragu · Mar 23, 2010

That said, mustang, I think the 12 seed was fair. Right now in hindsight people see that Cornell is a better team than they realized. It's impossible to compare a team like that when they are seeding then, though ,because the Ivy League schedule is weak (early on this season, some people thought Jeremy Lin and Harvard were a legitimate contender for the league, too) and even though Cornell put some meat on its out of Conference schedule, its signature wins were only Alabama, St. John's, Davidson and a couple of the middle-of-the pack A-10 teams like St. Joe's. They played Syracuse and Kansas and tight (Kansas tighter than Syracuse), but losses are still losses. If they had run the table in the Ivy League, they could have probably been a 10 seed, maybe, but that embarrassing loss at Penn, which was brutal this year, made it so that they were probably going to get between an 11 and 13 seed based on that season and the fact that it is an Ivy Conference schedule, and that seemed about right. I thought they got screwed with Temple in the first round. Temple had a strong argument that it should have been a 3 or a 4 seed, not a 5. And before Cornell handled them, I was afraid it was a bad match up for them. Cornell has a good offense and they shoot threes well. Defending that had been Temple's strength all year.

zagoshe · Mar 23, 2010

The Big Ragu said:

zagoshe said:

I don't think there is any question that Cornell could win this game. But that team is in the Sweet 16 as much because the field is way down this year and it got two wonderful matchups in the first two rounds.

Let's not forget that they haven't exactly beaten what anyone would consider a legitimate Final Four contender or even close to that.
Click to expand...

All anyone else has posted is that they think Cornell COULD win this game. No one on here is predicting a win, though. At least boldly. Cornell is a 9-point dog for a reason.

But when you weighed in, it was:

zagoshe said:

Jesus - this is why I hate when a few of the little guys make a run -- all of the sudden Cornell has become 1990 UNLV and they are going to storm through everyone, especially those overrated McDonald All-Americans........ :
Click to expand...

Typical of your posting style. Say something ridiculous and exaggerated, attribute it to others, and then argue.

As for the "wonderful" matchups Cornell had in the first two rounds, based on what criteria? Temple was ranked 12th in the country in the final AP poll. Wisconsin was ranked 16th. Of course those teams were considered Final Four shots, unless your criteria is that only the top 7 teams in the country at the end of the season are considered legitimate Final Four possibilities. Considering that a lot of people thought that Cornell should have been higher than a 12 seed, they absolutely got tough match ups. It's not like they cruised through with wins against East Tennessee State and an unranked Wake Forest team that lost 5 of its last 6 games heading into the tournament -- the way Kentucky did. They've actually had to play elite teams to make it this far, and if they somehow make it to the Final Four, on top of that they will have to have beaten Kentucky (#2 team in the country) and probably West Virginia (#4 team in the country) in the next round.

It's fair to say Cornell is no where on Kentucky's level as a basketball program, if that is a less hyperbolic point you'd like to make, but it's ridiculous to imply that Cornell backed its way into the Sweet 16 or got favorable match ups. They have had the toughest competition of any of the teams that have made it this far, except UNI, because UNI had to face Kansas in the second round.
Click to expand...

Temple and Wisconsin are/were legitimate Final Four contenders? On what planet?

Give me a fucking break - seriously, if that is what you need to do in order to make your argument, you already lost it.

Temple and Wisconsin were ranked high because of the way the system of rankings go and they won some games at the end of the year. I don't know anybody - anybody at all - that considered either a Final Four team and while both are good teams, both are offensively challenged - which is why they were the perfect matchup for a team like Cornell that can score.

That is especially true about Temple, which gives up the 3-ball and as soon as the brackets were announced everybody I know and just about everybody on here said they were doomed because Cornell was such a bad matchup for them - including you, who, in typical fashion contradicted yourself just two posts later when you admitted that Temple was a great matchup for Cornell.

And I'll refer you to the Wisconsin fans post about Bo Ryan and the Badgers about that program and the NCAA Tournament.

Nobody I know considered either of those two teams Final Four contenders, but in YOUR typical posting style, in order to try and make your argument that favorable matchups didn't aid Cornell's road to the Sweet 16 - which is ridiculous on so many levels I don't even know why I'm wasting my time -- you've now tried to make the case that Temple and Wisconsin were two great teams.

Like I said, Cornell could beat Kentucky on a given day -- but to act as if Cornell's road to the Sweet 16 wasn't laid out perfect for them in terms of the teams they needed to play for matchup purposes, then you are lying, to yourself and to everyone else.

zagoshe · Mar 23, 2010

The hypocrisy posted for posterity.....

The Big Ragu said:

As for the "wonderful" matchups Cornell had in the first two rounds, based on what criteria? Temple was ranked 12th in the country in the final AP poll.
Click to expand...

Two posts later.....

The Big Ragu said:

I thought they got screwed with Temple in the first round. Temple had a strong argument that it should have been a 3 or a 4 seed, not a 5. And before Cornell handled them, I was afraid it was a bad match up for them. Cornell has a good offense and they shoot threes well. Defending that had been Temple's strength all year.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute - so matchups - as in matchups of playing styles and not AP rankiongs --- do matter? Gee, what an amazing concept, did you come up with that yourself? :

trifectarich · Mar 23, 2010

The Big Ragu said:

That said, mustang, I think the 12 seed was fair. Right now in hindsight people see that Cornell is a better team than they realized. It's impossible to compare a team like that when they are seeding then, though ,because the Ivy League schedule is weak (early on this season, some people thought Jeremy Lin and Harvard were a legitimate contender for the league, too) and even though Cornell put some meat on its out of Conference schedule, its signature wins were only Alabama, St. John's, Davidson and a couple of the middle-of-the pack A-10 teams like St. Joe's. They played Syracuse and Kansas and tight (Kansas tighter than Syracuse), but losses are still losses. If they had run the table in the Ivy League, they could have probably been a 10 seed, maybe, but that embarrassing loss at Penn, which was brutal this year, made it so that they were probably going to get between an 11 and 13 seed based on that season and the fact that it is an Ivy Conference schedule, and that seemed about right. I thought they got screwed with Temple in the first round. Temple had a strong argument that it should have been a 3 or a 4 seed, not a 5. And before Cornell handled them, I was afraid it was a bad match up for them. Cornell has a good offense and they shoot threes well. Defending that had been Temple's strength all year.
Click to expand...

In the game AT Syracuse, the Orange shot more than twice as many free throws as Cornell (28-12) and were outrebounded. In the game AT Kansas, the Jayhawks shot 36 free throws to 14 for Cornell and the rebounding was dead even, 33-33. Cornell wasn't as far away from winning both of those games as the final scores might indicate.

zagoshe · Mar 23, 2010

dreunc1542 said:

spnited said:

No, Mustang, they don't have underdog mentality. They have gone into the first two games EXPECTING to win.
They're not looking at Kentukcy as "Gee, we hope we can keep it close." They are a very good, talented, mature, confident bunch who have been together for four years -- and actually live together in one big house.
Click to expand...

Exactly. They have no need to see themselves as an underdog because they know they can play with any team in the country.

Now, if you go matchup-by-matchup with them and Kentucky, Wittman against either Bledsoe or Miller would be the only one you could give to Cornell, but they're a very good TEAM, and that's what's important right now.

Plus, in talking about Kentucky's talent, people need to remember that this is a classic Calipari team, which means they can't shoot free throws for shit. That makes them very susceptible in a close game the rest of the way. They need to blow teams out, because in a tight game, I don't feel comfortable taking Kentucky (except for against WVU, where being a Huggins team mitigates any advantage the 'Neers might have).
Click to expand...

You mean the way they folded, stopped playing hard because they were thinking about the NBA so it didn't matter to them as well as missed free throws and couldn't play under pressure down the stretch in overtime of the SEC championship game?

mustangj17 · Mar 23, 2010

zagoshe said:

The Big Ragu said:

zagoshe said:

I don't think there is any question that Cornell could win this game. But that team is in the Sweet 16 as much because the field is way down this year and it got two wonderful matchups in the first two rounds.

Let's not forget that they haven't exactly beaten what anyone would consider a legitimate Final Four contender or even close to that.
Click to expand...

All anyone else has posted is that they think Cornell COULD win this game. No one on here is predicting a win, though. At least boldly. Cornell is a 9-point dog for a reason.

But when you weighed in, it was:

zagoshe said:

Jesus - this is why I hate when a few of the little guys make a run -- all of the sudden Cornell has become 1990 UNLV and they are going to storm through everyone, especially those overrated McDonald All-Americans........ :
Click to expand...

Typical of your posting style. Say something ridiculous and exaggerated, attribute it to others, and then argue.

As for the "wonderful" matchups Cornell had in the first two rounds, based on what criteria? Temple was ranked 12th in the country in the final AP poll. Wisconsin was ranked 16th. Of course those teams were considered Final Four shots, unless your criteria is that only the top 7 teams in the country at the end of the season are considered legitimate Final Four possibilities. Considering that a lot of people thought that Cornell should have been higher than a 12 seed, they absolutely got tough match ups. It's not like they cruised through with wins against East Tennessee State and an unranked Wake Forest team that lost 5 of its last 6 games heading into the tournament -- the way Kentucky did. They've actually had to play elite teams to make it this far, and if they somehow make it to the Final Four, on top of that they will have to have beaten Kentucky (#2 team in the country) and probably West Virginia (#4 team in the country) in the next round.

It's fair to say Cornell is no where on Kentucky's level as a basketball program, if that is a less hyperbolic point you'd like to make, but it's ridiculous to imply that Cornell backed its way into the Sweet 16 or got favorable match ups. They have had the toughest competition of any of the teams that have made it this far, except UNI, because UNI had to face Kansas in the second round.
Click to expand...

Temple and Wisconsin are/were legitimate Final Four contenders? On what planet?

Give me a fucking break - seriously, if that is what you need to do in order to make your argument, you already lost it.

Temple and Wisconsin were ranked high because of the way the system of rankings go and they won some games at the end of the year. I don't know anybody - anybody at all - that considered either a Final Four team and while both are good teams, both are offensively challenged - which is why they were the perfect matchup for a team like Cornell that can score.

That is especially true about Temple, which gives up the 3-ball and as soon as the brackets were announced everybody I know and just about everybody on here said they were doomed because Cornell was such a bad matchup for them - including you, who, in typical fashion contradicted yourself just two posts later when you admitted that Temple was a great matchup for Cornell.

And I'll refer you to the Wisconsin fans post about Bo Ryan and the Badgers about that program and the NCAA Tournament.

Nobody I know considered either of those two teams Final Four contenders, but in YOUR typical posting style, in order to try and make your argument that favorable matchups didn't aid Cornell's road to the Sweet 16 - which is ridiculous on so many levels I don't even know why I'm wasting my time -- you've now tried to make the case that Temple and Wisconsin were two great teams.

Like I said, Cornell could beat Kentucky on a given day -- but to act as if Cornell's road to the Sweet 16 wasn't laid out perfect for them in terms of the teams they needed to play for matchup purposes, then you are lying, to yourself and to everyone else.
Click to expand...

Would you have prefered to see them play Georgetown? Villanova? They would have beaten both of those teams.

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