Running "ask a zealot" thread

Even if you don't buy that notion, it's a matter of how you atone for ANY sin. Even if it's just one in your whole life, how do you make up for it?
Do good works do it?
The Bible says no. You're welcome to believe otherwise, obviously.

 

Thus, Gandhi's in hell.

 

I just wanted to jump into this discussion and offer a couple of quick perspectives from someone who, like Demo, takes his Christian faith very seriously, but who disagrees with him on several issues. Here are a few things characteristics of my own faith.

1. I believe, with near-certainty, that God exists and is interactive with this world (although perhaps not "omnipotent" as is the general consensus among Christians).

2. I believe (on my most optimistic days) that Jesus was the son of God. On my less optimistic days, I still choose to operate out of this belief because of two unique characteristics of Christianity: A) The concept of incarnation, of Jesus as fully God and fully human, experiencing in his divinity everything that comprises our humanity. B) The grace narrative -- the notion that our "sins" have no bearing on our relationship with God, and that we are pulled into relationship with him despite our own selfish nature.

3. If there's a hell, Gandhi ain't there.

4. I don't think Jesus needs the Christian church, in any of its incarnations, to exist in order for humanity (and individuals) to enact his purpose in the world.

5. With few exceptions (and this largely comes from my mom, who's an academic biblical scholar), the men who wrote the books that later came to comprise the Bible had no intention of getting millions of people to believe their writings were "the word of God."

6. I believe there are many people in other religions, including atheists/agnostics, who worship the true God. Religion is a social construct. Hell, language is a social construct. But, in my view, God isn't. So the notion that someone can only worship that God by using certain words and acting out certain rituals (i.e. praying the "sinner's prayer") doesn't make sense.

Finally, as you can probably imagine, I have no problem embracing tensions and even apparent contradictions in my faith. That's part of the fun. And at the end of the day, I could be wrong about everything.

 

I'm not judging Ghandi. That's not my job or my place. The Bible says each man must stand before his own master.

 

Good stuff, dud.

As for No. 3 ... so how does he get in? Assuming Gandhi didn't accept Jesus as his savior -- and I think it's a safe bet to say he didn't -- why and/or how should he get an exception?

 

Interesting thread. Lots of great points all around.

Just one minor nit though ... God isn't a He.

God is a She.

Carry on.

 

From a Christian perspective, he wouldn't get into heaven.

As far as safe bets...in this regard, they are none.

 

Sucks for him, then.





By no means is this limited to Christianity and by no means is this limited to modern times, but I am sad that we live in a world where so many people hold a belief system (no matter which one) where their view of the afterlife is so exclusionary.

Makes it so much easier to be exclusionary in this life, too, in my opinion.

 

Tyler Durden wants to fight Gandhi.

 

Nah, you're missing the point. It's not up to me. Good thing, too, for my standards are for shit.

As for exclusionary...Christians are called to be just the opposite. This calling is all over the Bible.

 

Oh, come on now. How can an athiest, who is claims there is no proof for a god, actually worship the Christian God? I mean, it's their position, their choice. But, in Christianity, there's no backdoor for Really Nice People who never found evidence of a higher power. There just isn't and there is really no use wishing it so.

 

No, I'm not missing the point: Most Christian belief systems say Gandhi can't go to heaven. Doesn't matter who makes the actual decision, the judgment's already been made by anyone who follows that belief system. That IS an exclusionary belief system, whether the Bible calls Christians to be or not. No one has to feel guilty about it, but there is nothing inclusive about that.