Running "ask a zealot" thread

But come on, you must realize that the past 2,000 years is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second on the grand clock of humanity. It does not qualify as legitimacy through staying power.

In a way, I envy you. Honestly. You seem like a really open-minded Christian, and I'm sure your faith brings you a great deal of purpose and peace. I'd probably be a happier person if I had that in my life, and I have no evidence that your take on things isn't right. It just doesn't jibe with the conclusions I've come to based on my own experiences and thoughts.

 

That's what I'm asking. Do you honestly believe that's The Irrefutable Truth -- that someone born in India who has as much exposure to Christianity as you do to Hinduism ... is bound for hell because they weren't born in the right place or because no one reached them in time to give them a chance to accept Jesus Christ?

Because that's not "uncomfortable" ... it's just illogical. And it's awfully convenient (to use Babar's word) that you and I just so happen to live in a time and a place where we can be exposed to The Irrefutable Truth, while likely 98% of the thousands of people who just died in Myanmar this week had no way of "accepting" it and, by your admission, are probably doomed to hell.

I don't know the answer. But I have a hard time reconciling the idea that the eternal-afterlife fate of majority of the world is based on their "unfortunate circumstances" of being born in the wrong place.

And I find it hard to believe that you'd let your own eternal fate rest on that, either.

 

Those who lived before Christ were saved by their faith in a coming savior. Those who lived after him are saved by their faith in a savior who has already come. That covers all of history.

 

Also, I'd like to say that this thread (to this point, at least) represents everything that is good and potentially good about this website. Whatever stupid shit that happens here, this is why we are here -- thoughtful debate by intelligent people.

 

People are not bound for Hell because of "circumstances." We are all bound for it from our first sin. It's just that there's only one way out (that I know of).
My fate rests on my believe in Jesus. I question my faith constantly. I wish everyone would. It strengthens my faith and helps me find the truth.
But I can't answer for the greater plans of God. I don't know His mind. I only know what he tells me, and what he tells me is His son is my salvation.

 

I agree. So far, this thread is what I had hoped when I started it. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before it starts crossing lines, but I hope it lasts a while.
Even though I think discussions about religion are incredibly important, I've never seen any value in getting angry during them.

 

But everyone of every religion with any savior could make the exact same argument: There was the time before this rock and the time after this rock. Your argument misses the central point.

 

But if this is a commandment, then your policy of

is falling a little short.

Personally, I would like to see the self-described zealots practice a "live and let live" policy, but if the belief is truly that you must spread the gospel to save souls, then you should practice what is preached. Can't have it both ways, right?

 

I disagree. You keep talking about a certain time and I'm saying there is no certain time because God reached out to man at the beginning.
Obviously I believe Moses went to Heaven, but he died well before Christ was born. It's not having heard the words of Christ that saved him, was it?

 

I can't change minds. I can tell people what I believe. There's a difference.
I also believe in the Biblical direction of spreading the gospel with respect.
I'm always polite when I discuss this with those who disagree with me. I see no point in going fire and brimstone, because it does nothing but turn people off.
I believe in "The Good News." That is what I focus on.

 

Yes, but see ... in acclaiming where your fate rests, and on what grounds ... you've simultaneously judged that a majority of the world is doomed, because they don't share your belief, and thus, don't share your fate (i.e., eternal life.)

I, for one, don't think you (or I, or anyone else) have the authority to make that judgment.

And the problem is, those two ideas contradict. You either can say with authority that your fate rests on your belief in Jesus, which means that you're also saying most of the world is doomed.

Or ... you don't know what anyone's fate rests on, including your own, because that type of knowledge is beyond our scope in this lifetime.

Me? I believe the latter. And I think it's a form of hubris if someone thinks they know enough to believe the former.

 

I know exactly what you're saying, Buck. I've had this debate dozens of times.
All I'm saying is I believe in my own salvation, and why. I'm grateful I don't have to decide the fate of others.
Maybe I shouldn't have said 100 percent earlier, because of course there is always some doubt. I should say I'm 99 percent certain of my own salvation and I wish everyone could share my confidence.