Running "ask a zealot" thread

Not sure exactly what you're taking offense to, here. Yes, I'm bothered by the fact that so many people -- including me, once upon a time -- are taught to believe in an afterlife that dooms a majority of the world through, I repeat, no fault of their own. You say it's their problem, not God's, but I say it's quite convenient that we were lucky to be born where we were, when we had no choice in the matter, and it would be our problem, a very big problem, if our circumstances had been different.

And I find it hard to believe you'd be saying "I can't spend all my time focusing on that" if your fate was determined that way, too. I couldn't, at least.

 

Nah, I don't think so. The Church- whether it's a side-of-the-highway Bible Church or the Roman Catholic Church- is made up of human beings, who can be wrong. Just ask Copernicus and Galileo. Well, ok, they're dead, but you get the point.

In my church, we're taught that reason is a gift from God to humanity and that we're supposed to use it.
http://www.epicenter.org/edot/Brochure_Scripture.asp?SnID=1033813674

Anyway, I'm very far from being a good example of what a person of my faith is supposed to be like, so I hesitate to come forth with my own beliefs. But since this is an interesting thread, I'll mention that I'm an Episcopalian. Anyone with questions, ask away. To be a bit more specific, I'm a liturgical and theological conservative and a social liberal. This often leaves me without much of a peer group, since most people tend to be either conservatives or liberals across the board. But theologically and liturgically, I'm an old-fashioned Anglo-Catholic who would have been happy in the Oxford Movement. Socially, I'm a liberal who approves of the ordination of women and is glad the Episcopal Church is gay-friendly, despite the ugly schisms that has caused.

 

I'm taking offense to the implication that I'm not bothered by the idea that some people will go to Hell. I am very much bothered by that and that issue is the biggest stumbling block for Christianity, I think.
However, what can I do about it? God doesn't run his plans by me. If He did, I'd ask Him to try to come up with a way to give everyone a better chance to get to Heaven. But it's His plan and all I can do is my part in the plan.
My part is to spread the Good News to those who are willing to listen.
I have not been called to spend my life as a missionary. If I did hear the call, I would. If I tried to do it without that call, I don't think I'd have much success, because I'd be relying on my own flawed ideas and strengths to reach people, not God working through me.
You know murders happen every day. I'm sure that bothers you just like it does me. Are you commiting your life to catching every murderer? You'd do what you could to help, I'm sure, but you can't live your life as a crime fighter.

 

This is a great question. There are many characteristics of a cult- secrecy, pyramid-scheme-ish fundraising techniques, a focus on an individual leader (who often uses his power over others for financial gain, sexual excesses or even abuse, etc.) I'd say, though, that cutting the believer off from the "outside world" would be the main one.

 

I don't think this is a "stumbling block" as much as it is a fatal flaw. And this statement smacks of a Christian-centric arrogance that permeates the religion. Christianity is not the world's dominant religion, as evidenced by the underdog, "Christians vs. lions" mentality often taken up by Christians, but it is often claimed as "the truth" to the exclusion of all other options.

I find arrogance in the thought that God's plan isn't perfect, according to you. Do you really believe God as you know Him would make a flawed plan? And do you really believe God's plan would offer such a narrow window to heaven as to exclude a majority of the people He created?

 

I didn't say the plan was imperfect. I said I would like to see one that allowed more people in, but I don't fully know the mind of God. I don't claim to.
God leaves it up to us to find the path. If we choose not to, what can He do about it? He isn't going to force anyone in.
I'm sorry if you think my statement is arrogant, but I'd say everyone is a little bit arrogant when it comes to religion. We claim to know the unknowable. All religions do that. Even those without religion make statements like, "You're just being silly and believing in a mythology."

 

Can I schedule a 2 p.m. appointment for Tuesday? And you're one of those sedation deists, right, because I'm scared of the deist.

 

Are you being anti-deite?

 

Same mountain, many paths.

 

To be completely honest, I hope that's true. I don't believe it is, though.

 

I'm sorry you don't. I think the world would be a better place if more people did. I believe heaven, such as it is, is a big enough place for all of us.

Exclusiveness is inherently divisive. I wish each religion would own up to their role in that, but instead they're too busy trying to convince everyone their way is the only way. That makes me sad.

 

Well, if I got to determine who got in, it would be more inclusive, but my wishing it were so doesn't change whether it is or isn't.
As I've said before, though, I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions. How do you decide on a person who is born crazy and can't figure out that he shouldn't kill?