Running gun violence thread

It's entirely possible that Brown didn't punch him and Wilson was injured. That does not have to be an either/or situation.

 

I'm sure Wilson's injuries have some other explanation. :

 

Here's an example of how Stand Your Ground could end up exonerating the Ferguson cop, if it is true that Brown went after him. This is a case from Upper Michigan, where a small-town cop followed a drunk driver on a chase. The guy crashed his car, and then started "aggressively" moving toward the officer, who "feared for his life" and shot him twice in the chest. The man was unarmed.

A neighboring county prosecutor, in finding against indicting the officer, cited Michigan law that "a person has the right to use force or even take a life to defend himself under certain circumstances," and that he was "justified in his belief that he was in imminent danger and acted immediately to defend himself." Note the prosecutor didn't say "a police officer" has the right to use force -- apparently, if you're a person who feels "threatened," stand your ground is open to you no matter what your profession.

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=1085494#.U_ScasVdXTQ

 

Assuming the injuries are true, to argue otherwise is definitely along the lines of, "Kevin Ward may have reached up and hung from Tony Stewart's car as a natural reaction to having just been clocked by a race car!"

When deadly force is justified is a really difficult dilemma, I think. It was difficult in the Trayvon Martin case. And it is particularly difficult when there are seemingly monthly rampage shootings on the level of Columbine.

I remain uncomfortable with the six shots fired. I do. But, on the other hand, I understand the argument that proceeds something along the lines of, "How the hell can you know what you're facing?" and, "Do you want to make that bet?"

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how else the officer would have been injured, except in a struggle/fight with Brown.

And, if there was a struggle/fight/punch, and especially if Brown went for his gun, then that is a life and death struggle.

Now all accounts say that whatever happened moved away from the car at some point. But, if Brown came towards Wilson at some point, I don't know how "stand your ground" would be looked at as some kind of loop hole for "executing" him as Bob Cook implies.

If a guy's already popped you in the face, and struggled for your gun, and is now coming at you, that calls for deadly force.

 

All witness accounts indicate something happened with the door as the officer was getting out of the car -- Brown's friend and the MSNBC woman say the officer flung the door open and it hit Brown and bounced back at him, and one of the few details we know from the other version is that Brown pushed the door back, trying to hurt the officer with it.

Either way, the frame of the door could have caused the injury.

 

Right. Let me clarify.

I don't think it was necessarily a punch. But the injury almost certainly occurred as a result of the struggle between Brown and Wilson.

 

Yeah.

But YF's post indicated that there was no way Brown didn't punch Wilson if Wilson was injured.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how else the officer would have been injured, except in a struggle/fight with Brown.

But, sure, it could have been incidental contact, and not as a result of anything Brown did.

Just last month, I flung my car door open with such force, and while my wife was too close to it, that it bounced back at me, and fractured my orbital socket. Shit like that happens all the time.

 

Your previous post, YF. The first one I responded to.

 

What's the source on the orbital fracture? I may have missed a link.

 

Saw an interview yesterday in which a Ferguson resident said justice must be done even if we don't know the facts. He must be a lurker here.