1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Sacramento Kings moving franchise to the OC, CA.

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Sportscentral, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    This was a place that didn't sniff the playoffs for 9-10 years and every game was packed. I'm not talking "sold out" I'm talking packed. I've been to hundreds of games as a fan and as a reporter at Arco and at the place where they played when they first moved from Kansas City, which is now a hospital and that place was crazy fun.

    The last time I was there was for LeBron James' NBA debut in 2003.

    It hasn't been that great for the last few years, mostly because of idiotic moves the Maloofs made and many have thought for some time they've had their eyes on leaving town for the last five years or so.
     
  2. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    Yep that first Arco Arena was a madhouse with unbelievable enthusiasm (I'm not a huge fan of cowbells though). I used to see Reggie Theus at clubs when they 1st got there and let's just say he was the Derek Jeter of Sac and did not lack for companionship. Sac would have probably provided a new arena had the Maloofs been straight with the City. You've got an ex- NBA guy as mayor and you cannot get a deal done? Idiotic.
     
  3. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Well, they got a deal done. Then the assfuck brothers reneged. If they had a problem with the original deal, let it be known at the time and work it out.

    They had no desire to keep the team in town. They were looking for any city willing to bail them out of their financial problems.
     
  4. Mystery Meat II

    Mystery Meat II Well-Known Member

    One of the attractions of the location they're scoping out is that not only is it adjacent to the new convention center, it's also on the tracks that Beach officials are hoping will be the terminus for the light rail line that currently stops some 15 miles west at the Virginia Beach-Norfolk line in a blue-collar industrial suburb. Light rail has been a contentious issue for the city since their NIMBY residents voted it down resoundingly back in 1999; if they got on board then, Hampton Roads would probably have a fully-functional system now. But with the success of the Norfolk starter line, development of that fake as a table full of Gucci bags on a Brooklyn sidewalk downtown they've built up in the center of the city and now this possible arena, they're probably going to get a lot more support for it now.

    The location isn't as much of a dealbreaker as it sounds. In my experience living here, people in Norfolk or Chesapeake are a lot more likely to drive 25 miles to the Oceanfront area than they are to drive that distance to the Peninsula or 5 miles to Portsmouth. It's not distance that makes people take pause here, it's whether you have to use a tunnel to get there. If you do, you might as well be driving to D.C. The Oceanfront is not the most convenient place in the region to put an arena, but Norfolk had 20 years to get their shit together enough to come up with an arena plan and it didn't happen and it probably won't happen for at least the next 20 years, so they're out. Besides, their big sports facility issue going forward is the expansion/replacement for ODU's football stadium for their move to FBS, because if the ODU-Virginia Tech series happens, they're not going to want to have the Hokies playing at a sub-20,000-seat stadium when they visit in 2018.

    Buried deep in the original story, by the way, is this gem:

    This opens the door for that, the NCAA tournament, arena-level tours and all sorts of fun stuff that doesn't want to visit the disco-era dump we know as Scope. The circus goes there because the elephants can crap all over the place and it doesn't change the smell.

    Virginia Beach has been desperately trying to build the resort strip area as something worth going to during the offseason. Really even then it's for people from up north who can't be arsed to drive down to Myrtle Beach. So they'll make every reasonable effort to nail this down. Until the NIMBY residents start whining about taxes or coloreds or whatever hornet flew up their ass that day.

    Still, I hope we get it. I can't afford the tickets and I have to work that night, but we haven't been excited about non-Redskins pro sports around here since the glory days of the Charlotte Hornets.
     
  5. franticscribe

    franticscribe Well-Known Member

    Will games be broadcast on the CBN?
     
  6. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    No but they can call the skyboxes the 700 Club.
     
  7. exmediahack

    exmediahack Well-Known Member

    Very, very good. :)

    I probably know about everything to know about the KC-Omaha Kings/Kansas City Kings. I desperately want to see a winter tenant at the Sprint Center.

    But the market won't support it.

    Kansas City cares about: The Chiefs, KU basketball and Opening Day for the Royals. That's about it.

    It is hard to imagine that, in 1976, the city had the FOUR major team sports (Kings/Scouts) and hosted the Republican National Convention. Yet within ten years, the Scouts moved to Colorado, the Kings left for Sacramento and Tom Watson (arguably a franchise for any sports fans south of 63rd Street in the metro area) was finished winning majors.

    There is a bit of revisionist history with the Kings in Kansas City, often the "if Kansas City could have hung on until Michael Jordan played a few more years, the market would have supported the NBA". Kansas City only drew well when the Lakers, Celtics and 76ers were in town. The 1978-79 season finally topped 10,000 in attendance (Phil Ford was rookie of the year and they won the Midwest) but when Kemper collapsed, attendance went down and the team had to let Otis Birdsong and Scott Wedman go in free agency in 1981.

    The trouble was, the MISL's Kansas City Comets moved to Kemper in 1981 and, over the next four years, when winter sports fans had the choice between the Kings and Comets... they almost always took the Comets (especially in Johnson County, Kansas, where the money is).

    Before he passed away a few years back, I befriended the old Kings GM in his final years and we kept up a fairly detailed and frequent conversation through "letters" (yes, actual letters). He said the Comets lost $400,000 a year giving away tickets (or offering $2 seats) to boost attendance figures. They did but the Kings and the Comets both lost money. Also said the city was so arrogant that another NBA team would replace the Kings that they dared the Sacramento-based owners to move to Sacramento. So they did and sold out Arco I at 10,333 a game until opening Arco II in 1988.

    I actually believe the NBA does work well in the markets where it is the "only game". San Antonio, Okie City, Salt Lake City, even Memphis (where I thought didn't have enough wealthy people but it seems to work), Trouble is, Sacramento - and the surrounding cities - are plagued with red ink and bankrupt towns. Not much money left.

    I think Virginia Beach would be ideal for an NBA team.
     
  8. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    I covered a Creighton women's game at the Civic Auditorium in Omaha about six years ago. Neat old building. The cool thing was knowing that I was in the house were the KC-Omaha Kings played in.

    Some cool pix ...

    http://blogs.omaha.com/2012/01/04/from-the-archives-omaha-pro-basketball/
     
  9. Liut

    Liut Well-Known Member

    Exmediahack, Joe Axelson?

    You probably recall the move from Kansas City better than I do, but I remember it seeming to be a done deal at the moment Gregg Luckenbill's group purchased the franchise.

    Glad you mentioned the Scouts. Doubt they would have lasted longterm in Kansas City but the ownership group was underfinanced. Escalating salaries due to the WHA killed them. Wonder how much to took to sign Wilf Paiement?
     
  10. exmediahack

    exmediahack Well-Known Member

    Yes, it was "Mr. A". Deadly heart attack four years ago. His family told me later that he appreciated our letters and that I was so interested in his role. Axelson took a lot of guff but he still built a team with Birdsong, Ford and Wedman that was decent. It was at its talent peak when he left in 1979 to work for the league. When he returned in 1982, the Kings had been gutted. Ted Stepien made huge offers on Birdsong and Wedman the Kings couldn't match and Ford was battling injuries and alcohol.

    The Kings owners, by 1982, were fighting amongst themselves over the cost of office supplies. Ten local owners with no real money in the '82 recession and they were broke. Lukenbill wanted the Pacers but got the Kings for a good price. He was smart in the pre Internet days. Saying one thing to the Sac Bee and another to the Star. Said the Kings would stay but they needed high attendance spikes.

    In 1984, the Kings hosted the Showtime Lakers in Game 3 of the first round. 7,500 people showed up. Lukenbill sped up the plans for Arco I. January 1985, the intent to move was announced. The day after the season ended, the moving vans headed west.

    Axelson was always a humorous letter writer an quite an accomplished man. Honest, to a fault, but his portrayal by the Star stung for decades. The last 20 years of his life, he wouldn't take any calls from the Star. He didn't order the move but Lukenbill made Axelson do all the announcements. Still, it was a good move to a market that, for 20 years, supported the franchise.

    If Sacramento moves, the bad calls and missed free throws of "Game Six" will haunt that fan base forever.
     
  11. Mark2010

    Mark2010 Active Member

    What do you think caused Kansas City's decline as a major sports market? I can still remember the phrase "everything's up to date in Kansas City". (Have no idea if it was ever true or not.)
     
  12. exmediahack

    exmediahack Well-Known Member

    My own theories...

    Jackson County built two beautiful stadiums (both places still hold up very very well 40 years later) but they are a hike to get to. That's not a problem for 10 Chiefs games but for 81 Royals games, that's a deterrent. As most of the new stadiums in the past 30 years were built in downtown metro areas, Kauffman/Arrowhead are in the edge of the metro area where there is not much "money growth". There is no nightlife district there. No place to park on the street, catch a dinner at 5 pm and then watch baseball. (In that way, it is similar to Milwaukee but Miller Park/County Stadium is centrally located in the metro area). Yet look the recent stadiums in Minneapolis, St. Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Denver. All baseball stadiums that are in the heart of the city. Kansas City is out of the way. Most of the "money demographic" has moved far into Johnson County, KS (southwest of the metro area) or northwest into Platte County, MO (near KCI Airport).

    Kansas City built top-notch facilities in the 1970's (Kemper's roof notwithstanding) but the problem was the placement for all of them. Great buildings but the location is an issue. The airport's idea of "park and walk 100 feet to your gate" was brilliant -- but it takes forever to get there. Love Kauffman and Arrowhead being next to 435/70 but, for most of the fans with money to spend, that's a long way to drive for a lousy baseball team.

    It takes 50 minutes to get from KCI to the stadiums. Kemper Arena was a high-end arena when it was built but the neighborhood was not exactly a magnet for people from the suburbs to drive to and from at night.

    Look back 30 years. The price of NFL/NBA/MLB tickets was very reasonable which, in a market like Kansas City, was important. In the Royals' heyday of 1977-1983, you could get a box seat for $15. The best seat at Kemper for the Kings games was something like $13.50. Imagine seeing Dr. J or the Showtime Lakers in the third row for $13.50?!?

    1989 proved a seismic shift in the Kansas City sports scene. The Kings had been long gone but that basketball fix had been replaced, oddly enough, by Kansas - fresh off an NCAA title and they'd usually play a few games at Kemper each winter. The Royals couldn't catch the Steroid A's but they did have Brett, Bo Jackson, Saberhagen. A very very good team. Yet their decline was swift, starting in 1990. The same year Marty Schottenheimer/Carl Petersen came to Arrowhead and turned Kansas City into a "football-first town" for the first time since the early 1970's.

    By 1991, Kansas City was "Chiefs first". They had a MNF blowout win over Buffalo that fall and I remember thinking that I had never seen (nor heard) Arrowhead that insanely loud. It was like that the entire decade of the 1990's.

    Yet as the sports money went to the Chiefs, the Royals did a terrible job of "market share". They would rack up these 95-loss seasons, all while raising ticket prices, parking prices, concession prices. 30 years ago, the social event of the season WAS going to Royals' games. Odd to say but that's "where business was done", clients were schmoozed and deals were agreed upon. Now that's done at Chiefs games.

    Also, the "Missouri side" tax base of the metro area never really grew after 1980. Most of that money is in Kansas now, with suburbia still sprouting as the east side of Kansas City is a war zone of poverty, despair and hopelessness.

    In his letters, Axelson also brought up a sterling point about Kansas City's problems as a sports market. Not enough corporate money. He said most of that was/is in St. Louis. St. Louis has A-B(InBev) and Enterprise. Kansas City has Sprint but the city doesn't really have a rich guy who wants an NBA franchise as his "toy" (ala Clay Bennett).
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page