San Bernardino

I originally missed MC's post, while tying my own. And, it was Ryan I was referring to when he mentioned Muslims serving in our military (and on Capital Hill?).

But, as others have pointed out, about the only Muslims in America at its founding were African slaves, who were forced to convert to Christianity.

So, do you really want to argue that a temporary ban on Muslims entering the country is somehow against our founding principles? Really?

It's also worth considering that, given the lack of Muslims, and members of other non-Christian fauths, when the founders talked about freedom of religion, they basically had the various Christian faiths in mind. National Churches were the concern. being forced to be a member of a certain Christian Church was what they were worried about.

Now, of course that idea has been expanded over the years. Rightly so. But, let's not try to cite our founders when discussing tolerance for Islam. It simply didn't exist, and wasn't considered.

 

That has been bandied about for months, da man.

Is Donald Trump a Clinton Plant? | RealClearPolitics

 

Ted Cruz would pay you decent money to put that out there on the web.

 

Back (briefly) to the thread topic ...

 

I'm not a big "founders' intent" guy. Nor do I believe "our founders were demigods"....

But I'm referring to the principles themselves. Subtle difference. One's human, one isn't.

The Constitution is an elastic document.

Over time, "freedom of religion" in this country has come to mean... "freedom of religion."

Pretty amazing.

 

In 2009, Shahar Pe'er was denied a visa by UAE to play in a tennis tournament.

The world response was... well it wasn't overwhelming:

Dubai bans Israeli tennis player from country and tournament | SportsJournalists.com

Did UAE become a "pariah nation"? LOL. Of course not.

Hell, NYU Abu Dhabi opened the following year.

 

Lugs, our founding principles were formed by our founders. You can't really separate the two.

And, I agree that the principles have been expanded. That doesn't change what our "principles" were at our founding.

 

Who's allowed to enter the country this guy represents? Did Engel ask him this, and how he squares his criticism of Trump's plan with his own nation's laws?

 

Remember when Saudi denied Michael Wilner a visa because he is Jewish, broke international law, became a pariah nation, and earned the scorn of Ambassadors from throughout the Middle East

White House expresses 'deep disappointment' after Saudis deny visa to 'Post' journalist - Diplomacy & Politics - Jerusalem Post

Just for fun, how do they usually handle visas for journalists and/or tourists:

Saudi Arabia does not typically grant journalist visas, and suspended tourist visas in 2010. In 2011, the Kingdom issued a statement denying that they did or had ever denied Americans entry based on religion.

Oh.

Well, at least they are a pariah nation, condemned by their fellow Muslim nations.

 

Any nation that would ask what someone's religion is on a visa application would immediately become a pariah nation, and earn the world's scorn, especially in Muslim majority countries:

http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/VisaApp.pdf