San Bernardino

"We showed the dictator and a watching world that America means what it says. Because -- because we acted, Saddam's torture chambers are closed. Because we acted, Iraq's weapons programs are ended forever. Because we acted, nations like Libya got the message and renounced their own weapons programs. Because we acted, an example of democracy is rising at the very heart of the Middle East. Because we acted, the world is more free, and America is more secure." — George W. Bush

I just find it hard to believe that a party that claimed it was bringing freedom and democracy to the Middle East 10 years later is writing off that region a lost cause, its religion nothing but evil.

The issues with Islam YF is pointing out have been the case for hundreds of years. And yet the GOP completely made an about face in 10 years once it lost the Presidency?

Instead, I'm more apt to believe that because the American Crusade failed miserably in the region and now that the stability and security it was supposed to bring us have instead morphed into something terrible (only giving more oxygen to a group of miscreants in ISIS we haven't seen since they wore swastikas) they're plumb out of ideas. So is everybody else. We're dealing with fucking mad men now. They were coming for us regardless. But now they have an actual government and nation to rule from.

I'm starting to wonder if Saddam Hussein wasn't the only guy who could see what was in store back in 2003. He was a monster, but he was a monster with a code. It gives me pause when I want Assad out of power, too. What's lurking if we do oust him?

 

I don't think you can even convince yourself of that, no less anyone else.

 

I posed a straightforward question to you not long ago on this thread. I know you didn't miss it. How about you answer that question before trying to speak for someone else?

 

It was an ignorant, strawman-building question that time, too.

 

Your non-answer speaks volumes.

 

I guess I'll have to take the chance that other idiots will draw ignorant conclusions, too.

 

That doesn't strike me as all that inviting, seeing as how once you go "across the spectrum" vis-a-vis Islam you run up against those who'd saw your head off just for suggesting there might be something to debate.

 

I seem to have struck a nerve. It was just a question. You can avoid it without the name-calling.

 

No, you needed to understand how dumb you sound.

 

You seem less tolerant than usual today.

 

I'm rarely tolerant of stupid.

 

Of course, what Graham doesn't discuss, is who are the people who hate both Assad and ISIS, what do they represent.