School T-Shirt Wars, Part MCXLVI: Kids can't wear U.S. flag shirts on May 5

Funny . . . you took the words right out of my mouth.

My point went way beyond just educating you regarding the tendency of young dudes to band together to dump on people, but if that's what you wish to focus on, then cool.

Now go forth, and find my posts to selectively quote in support of your argument.

 

Selectively quote? That was the entirety of your post.

 

Indeed. And there's Corona Light. I shudder to think how bad that must taste

 

I think we all agree that the legal portion of this is pretty well-defined: If a court would agree that it was reasonable for the administrator to consider their speech disruptive to the classroom, then he's within his legal rights to stop them.

The question is whether he's within his moral rights.

 

Who gives a shit?

"Morality!!!!" changes from person to person, situation to situation.

If you agree that the administrator has the LEGAL right (and I think that has been well-established here), then you've just been tilting at windmills for four pages.

"Oh, he can't do that because I think it's morally WRONG!!!"

Good for you.

 

Well, now that you've forfeited your own right to ever opine on anything based on subjective values ever again, expect me to hold you to this standard you've just created.

And no, I didn't agree that it was in his legal right. It's in his legal right if he can make a real case that disruption of the classroom is likely. Offending people and actual disruption are not the same thing.

 

What if those kids started a fight or were one the receiving end of an ass kicking? Would he have been within his moral rights to let the flag slide?

 

IF

 

Thanks.

I happen to hold you to no standard, but I appreciate you taking the time to focus so much on me.

So, in this particular case:

A high school campus, boys banding together to . . . awww, you already know, right?

How does deliberately setting out to offend NOT constitute a disruption? On a high school campus, I mean.

 

How does it disrupt?

In what way can the teachers in the classrooms no longer do their jobs because a few kids are offended?

 

Seriously?

I don't think this should have to be explained, unless you were home-schooled or something. Anyone who has ever spent time on a high school campus . . .

Aw, forget it. You've been screwing with me, with everyone, this whole time.

 

Since you are *only* interested in the legal side of this, let's take a few important quotes from Tinker v. Des Moines:

"In order for the State in the person of school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expression of opinion, it must be able to show that its action was caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint."

" But, in our system, undifferentiated fear or apprehension of disturbance is not enough to overcome the right to freedom of expression. Any departure from absolute regimentation may cause trouble. Any variation from the majority's opinion may inspire fear. Any word spoken, in class, in the lunchroom, or on the campus, that deviates from the views of another person may start an argument or cause a disturbance. But our Constitution says we must take this risk, Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1 (1949); and our history says that it is this sort of hazardous freedom--this kind of openness--that is [509] the basis of our national strength and of the independence and vigor of Americans who grow up and live in this relatively permissive, often disputatious, society."

" Certainly where there is no finding and no showing that engaging in the forbidden conduct would "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school," the prohibition cannot be sustained. "



Merely saying "It's offensive, therefore it's disruptive" clearly doesn't even come close to meeting the legal standard here. Or was the entire Supreme Court homeschooled?

Yes, I seriously want you to outline *exactly* what real disruption to the classroom you think was going to happen because of these kids wearing the flag. Fights break out in the classroom? Kids insisting on talking about this instead of the lesson at hand? Kids seething in anger so that they can't hear the lesson? What disruption? I keep asking and you keep not answering, so I'm guessing you don't have one.